Cloud Mind... Is this a useless power?

[JacktheRabbit]

Yes, exactly. If it works, it's like you were invisible since you first came into the subject's sight.

-- N

Which makes it far weaker than Invis in some situations and far stronger than Invis in other siuations.

I would though rule that the spell can only negate memories from the target IF the caster has not interacted in any way with the target or done anything to call extreme attention to himself.

So a psion could walk up to a guard, cast the power, walk past and the guard would never know the psion was there.

A psion could not though walk up to a jailer, pick up the cell keys from the table the jailer is sitting next to, cast the power, and walk out with the keys.

If a psion tried the 2nd one as DM I would say the jailer knows someone was there. He knows they just picked up his keys. He also knows they disapeared. Depending on how common magic and or psionics are the jailer will first listen to try and hear for the caster thinking he is invisible. Or he might think the caster activated an item or cast a spell and teleported away. Only if psionics were very common would he think that this power was used.

 

[Nifft]

Which makes it far weaker than Invis in some situations and far stronger than Invis in other siuations.

Yes. And this is, IMHO, a very good thing. Seems like it's balanced, particularly when you consider how situational it is, and how spontaneous casters (like Psions) get a limited number of Powers.

I would though rule that the spell can only negate memories from the target IF the caster has not interacted in any way with the target or done anything to call extreme attention to himself.

Agree, though I'd do this as a circumstance bonus to the victim's save rather than as a restriction on the Power.

So a psion could walk up to a guard, cast the power, walk past and the guard would never know the psion was there.

A psion could not though walk up to a jailer, pick up the cell keys from the table the jailer is sitting next to, cast the power, and walk out with the keys.

That 2nd case is covered in the Power description -- if you take an obvious, unattended object and move it, the victim gets another Will save with a +4 bonus.

-- N

 

[JacktheRabbit]

That 2nd case is covered in the Power description -- if you take an obvious, unattended object and move it, the victim gets another Will save with a +4 bonus.

-- N

You missed my point. If the spell removes the psion from the targets memory what would keep the psion from grabbing the key THEN using the power? The target forgets the psion and the fact that the key was taken.

 

[Snowy]

but they knew the key was there and now its not, it doesn't remove the memory of that from them.

So they get a second save, whats the result of a fail on that one?

a) if they fail they presumably start thinking it was someone invisible who moved it or the key was teleported or something.

b) the memory of the key being there vanishes as well.

c) they just don't notice that whatever it was is moved or gone for the duration.

I think I'd go for c) as it creates the least mess.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

The target wouldnt know even this. Erasing all awareness of the psion would I think include erasing the memory that the caster was right there to begin with, otherwise the target is aware the caster is there from sheer memory alone.

This is not how I'd been inturpteting the power. I saw it as working in the present only, so that you erase eveything you are doing for the duration of the power, but not anything before that. Your interpretation would make the power better, and therefore more balance, but it also leads to more unclear situations. (i.e. the key situation). Or what if you first try diplomacy on thee guard, they you try to bribe him, then after none of that has worked, you use cloud mind to sneak past him. Does he forget that somebody tried to bribe him? With my interpetation the answers are easy.

In an effort to figure out the true value of cloud mind, I'm going to go ahead and have my new character actually take the power. We'll see how that goes.

 

[Nifft]

You missed my point. If the spell removes the psion from the targets memory what would keep the psion from grabbing the key THEN using the power? The target forgets the psion and the fact that the key was taken.

That's covered by my first point (accusing tone: which YOU MISSED! HA HA HA!!!!1!).

I'd grant a hefty circumstance bonus to a target who's already paying attention to the manifester.

-- N

 

[JacktheRabbit]

This is not how I'd been inturpteting the power. I saw it as working in the present only, so that you erase eveything you are doing for the duration of the power, but not anything before that. Your interpretation would make the power better, and therefore more balance, but it also leads to more unclear situations. (i.e. the key situation). Or what if you first try diplomacy on thee guard, they you try to bribe him, then after none of that has worked, you use cloud mind to sneak past him. Does he forget that somebody tried to bribe him? With my interpetation the answers are easy.

In an effort to figure out the true value of cloud mind, I'm going to go ahead and have my new character actually take the power. We'll see how that goes.

As Nifft said there would be an ever increasing circumstance bonus to the guards saving throw the more you interact with him. Otherwise the fact that you have to get so close to the target makes it nearly useless unless its purely supposed to be a melee ability.