Cloud Mind... Is this a useless power?

[Nifft]

Well, in some cases it's not as good (since it only works against one person, and they get to make a save, and you have to be within range), but in others, it's MUCH better.

You make an excellent point (which I've snipped). I no longer think Invisibility is strictly better -- it's simply different.

Thanks, -- N

 

[MatthewJHanson]

Well, they'd know there was something.

The text you quoted was for succeeding a savingthrow. If they failed the saving throw, and thus cloud mind worked, this would not give you any clue.

I do think that the "there's used to be a person standing there, now there isn't" element will give them a hint that something is up though. Yes it can be countered by hiding and the like.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

Well, in some cases it's not as good (since it only works against one person, and they get to make a save, and you have to be within range), but in others, it's MUCH better.

I'll grant that in some cases it is better, but I still think that amount of times when invisibility is better outweighs the number of times that cloud mind is better. Sometimes burning hands is better than cone of cold (like when your fighting a white dragon) but over all cone of cold is still a more powerful spell.

As far as I know, nothing else in the game, with the exception of a 9th-level spell released in Complete Arcane, can foil Blindsight-

Deafening attacks thwart blindsight if it relies on hearing.

If you read the creature descriptions, you'll see that most rely on hearing, or by using echolocation, which specifically says that it is thwarted by a silence spell.

Also, they have very limited application, but its worth noting that hide from undead and hide from animals both fool blindsense.

With this Power on, assuming they fail their save, there's NOTHING they can do to see you. NOTHING. Even if it's only one person, it's still pretty darn powerful for a 2nd-level spell.

First of all, they fact they get a save at all is a pretty big deal. Secondly, what about dispel magic/psionics? Okay, maybe you'd have to realize the spell was targetting you, or include yourself in the area. Still its better than NOTHING.

Or your friend could take a move action to say "hey, why can't you see the guy in front of you!" to give you a new will save.

As I see it cloud mind is only better than invisibility if you are fighting/trying to sneak by a lone enemy who has a low Will save and has some sort of better than normal senses.

A lone enemy with a low Will save, and regular vision, they're pretty equal.

Multple enemies or high Will save, invisibility is better, and I think you're more likely to run into either multiple enemies or creatures with good Will saves than you are to run into creatures with blindsight.

Lastly, since it hasn't been brought up yet, cloud mind is mind-affecting, thus has no effect on constructs, plants, undead, oozes, vermin, and any miscalanious enemies I forgot.

 

[Thanee]

It seems more like a power, which can be used after you have been detected... erasing your presence from a guard's mind, and continue unharrassed.

And the guard will just report, that there was nothing at all.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ballard_Alvar]

There's no Display -- they would NOT know something was up! It's one of the few powers you can manifest without making anyone aware that you're a Psion. You can manifest it without drawing attention to yourself (in a crowd, for example) and then do something that would draw attention to yourself (like walk through a "guarded" doorway).

But, yeah, it's not as good as invisibility, and it's not supposed to be.

-- N

my Favorite trick is that a character with a concentration check of 14+ can always suppress their displays because you can use a concentration check on a skill. concentration is a skill, DC 15.

 

[Campbell]

One major advantage of Cloud Mind, compared to Invisibility, is that with Cloud Mind you can possibly attack other opponents while the recipient of the power remains oblivious, possibly allowing you to ignore enemy tanks. Still, I believe, cloud Mind could use some quality augmentations. I don't think that Cloud Mind is a bad power, just that, compared to other 2nd level powers, it lacks flexibility.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

You don't have to sneak up. Erasing all awareness of you from the targets mind would also mean erasing any memory of you being there. These memories would return when the spell expired of course but they are gone during the spell duration. Or would they, if the power erased all awarness then the memory of the psion is gone.

The spell has its uses. If there is only one guard in a hallway you walk up, use the power and then walk right past him.

The real question is what does the target know when the spell expires. Does the target suddenly get flooded with all the suppressed memories?

From my example above. Bob the Psion walks up the a guard. The guards yells halt or die. Bob invokes this power and walks past the guard. Five minutes later when the duration ends what happens? Does the guard only remember someone walking up to him the disapearing? Or does he remember the psion walking right past him?

This would be important since it tells you whether or not the guard will run down the hall looking for you or if he will shake his head and decide he drank too much the night before.

My guess is he remembers nothing once the power is used since it says ERASES which means nothing is there to remember. He doesnt remember the psion walked up since that awarness was erased as part of making him not know the psion was there. If it said supressed instead of erased them the guard would know then.


Hmmm, I think my new psion just gained a new fun power to start using. ;-)

 

[JacktheRabbit]

The text you quoted was for succeeding a savingthrow. If they failed the saving throw, and thus cloud mind worked, this would not give you any clue.

I do think that the "there's used to be a person standing there, now there isn't" element will give them a hint that something is up though. Yes it can be countered by hiding and the like.

The target wouldnt know even this. Erasing all awareness of the psion would I think include erasing the memory that the caster was right there to begin with, otherwise the target is aware the caster is there from sheer memory alone.

 

[RigaMortus]

I can see it's application when used while you are already in combat. If things look grim, cloud the mind of the enemy nearest you and run past him. But I still don't see how useful it is when trying to sneak past someone (which is one of the main applications for invis). You have to be in Close range to target them, they get a will save, and you need line of sight (which is my main gripe). In order to have line of sight with someone, and them to NOT have line of sight to you, you need to be concealed in the first place. If there is ample already concealment, chances are you don't need Cloud Mind. Or if you have a really good hide/move silently check (most Psions do not) you could just sneak past them anyway.

 

[Nifft]

The target wouldnt know even this. Erasing all awareness of the psion would I think include erasing the memory that the caster was right there to begin with, otherwise the target is aware the caster is there from sheer memory alone.

Yes, exactly. If it works, it's like you were invisible since you first came into the subject's sight.

-- N