Code Monkey Lose WoTC License (Merged)

[kingpaul]

The data sets were originally made by fans for public consumption, you couldn’t run a game off them but you could have a computer do the “grunt work” if you had the books. Standard “fair use”.

And we at PCGen thought that we were doing the datasets under fair use. WotC stated otherwise. As such, we removed the files.

CMP decided to take the data and move it private in exchange for a payout (in the form of a license) for Wizards stuff.

CMP did not take the files, they created their own from scratch.

 

[kingpaul]

As I understand it, CMP licensed E-Tools from Wizards. They didn't buy it. WoTC could turn around Dec 1 and offer E-Tools on its own site, or via another licensor in that case. Is this correct?

Correct, CMP is a licensee of WotC's for eTools (the program) and of datasets based upon their publications.

 

[Ranger REG]

I believe so. Fluid did the original design, but put a poor product out and lost the license. Then CMP got it and did a lot better.
I'm sure the actual legal fun is even more complicated...

The initial licensing agreement allows CMP to improve and support e-Tools. That they did, though it was only just a "band-aid" fix on a program that is already flawed to begin with.

A later agreement allows CMP to design datasets based on WotC's copyrighted book material. If you're miffed that they remove fan-brewed datasets and sell familiar datasets based on WotC's copyrighed books, most likely it was a request/demand from WotC as part of the agreement.

Sorry that CMP let that license slip away. It would have been a different story had their RPG Toolkit ... nay, RPG Foundry ... been released this year's GenCon.

So, I'm guessing the final candidates in the running for the license bid would be RPGX and Hero Lab.

 

[Edheldur]

In the next cycle of releases/updates (later this month) we’ll finally be revising our PCGen data sets to support PCGen Stable Production Release 5.10.1! Testing was finally concluded without any major changes (primarily to game modes settings since PCGen code changed a few things there - more details/comments at release time on this) and all is looking good.

So, does this mean that we will finally get some standarized datasets? (Standarized as in the special abilities of the different creatures and PrCs will be coded as virtual feats, as opposed to merely SA: tags.)

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Sorry that CMP let that license slip away. It would have been a different story had their RPG Toolkit ... nay, RPG Foundry ... been released this year's GenCon.

Actually, I'm thinking that this is all tied together. We now know that CMP's licensing agreement was due to run out 11/30/06. CMP might well have had a good idea that this was coming, and thus started work on RPG Toolikit so they'd have something in case this happened. It's also possible that they decided to work on RPG Toolkit, and Wizards saw it as a competing piece of software that they wouldn't have ownership of, and pulled the license as a result.

I think the "future product considerations" have less to do with 4E and more to do with the possible Wizards Insider website plans. They either want to have their own online product without E-Tools competition, or they may even use E-Tools as a carrot/reward for subrscribing ("subscribe for a year, get a copy of E-Tools!"). All that is speculation, of course.

 

[Maggan]

It might just be the case of too little revenue for the job that WotC has/had to put in. I can't imagine datasets bringing in the big greens for either CMP or for WotC, and when they did review the license, WotC just maybe decied it wasn't worth it for them. Easier to sit on the rights themselves until they can do something with them.

/M

 

[buzz]

Based on talking to some of my software developer friends, the cost of WotC developing a new application in-house is so prohibitive that I'm seriously starting to doubt that's what they're up to. There's also such a large installed base of PCGen users that I don't see why WotC would want to eliminate that potential revenue stream.

As one of these friends posited, it's possible that WotC was not happy with CMP's performance, and simply want to either shift the creation of datasets in-house, or to a different licensee. I can honestly see WotC getting into the dataset business. While it's a lot of work, it's nothing compared to actual software development. They could hire one designated dataset guy and probably recoup his annual salary in the space of a month or two.

Basically, owning eTools was not profitable for them back during the d20 boom, ergo, I can't see owning/developing a similar product suddenly being profitable now.

 

[buzz]

It might just be the case of too little revenue for the job that WotC has/had to put in. I can't imagine datasets bringing in the big greens for either CMP or for WotC, and when they did review the license, WotC just maybe decied it wasn't worth it for them. Easier to sit on the rights themselves until they can do something with them.

But the work was almost 100% on CMP's end, no? Even minimal profit is better than zero profit, so why just revoke the license in order to sit on it?

I'm really hoping we get some commentary from WotC soon.

 

[DonTadow]

I've never been a big fan of CMP and figured Karma would catch up with them sooner or later. In a way they got their own Cease and Desist.

I"m more worried about the bigger picture. Hasbro is a corporation, not just an average gaming company. Perhaps it is the pessimist in me but I can't help but put together all of these rumors and come to the conclusion that WOTC is scaling back 3.5 to move forward to 4. sure there's no proof, there never is, but this is about the biggest question mark I've seen in the wotc rumors. Plus for it to happen only a month or two from winter Fantasy when they are supposed to announce it.

Why would WOTC take back the license?
They weren't happy with CMP?
If this is the case CMP would know about it. also, a smart company would probably have set up a backup plan where they take the license from cmp one day and transfer it to say dmgenie the next.
They are doing it inhouse?
I agree. But I take that as they are refocusing etools and trying to do something interesting with it and 4e. Maybe then they can do what the plan was with 3e. Make d and d this part computer part tabletop experience.

 

[buzz]

If this is the case CMP would know about it. also, a smart company would probably have set up a backup plan where they take the license from cmp one day and transfer it to say dmgenie the next.

I think it's possible that WotC have done this, but are waiting to announce anything until CMP's license expires. I.e., as a gesture to CMP so their sales don't immediately tank. Otherwise, you'd get a month of people waiting for the new licensee and not buying anything from CMP.

As a harbinger of 4e... I don't buy it. If they were happy with CMP and didn't want to bring anything in-house, an impending edition change wouldn't be a good reason to suddenly drop the license. A dataset is a dataset.

I'm now guessing that PCGen data sets will be a perk of their new subscription service. Heck, that would certainly get me to sign up.