Code Monkey Lose WoTC License (Merged)

[Kid Charlemagne]

As a harbinger of 4e... I don't buy it. If they were happy with CMP and didn't want to bring anything in-house, an impending edition change wouldn't be a good reason to suddenly drop the license. A dataset is a dataset.

It wouldn't make sense to develop a new tool for 3.5 at this point, I think, unless its going to have a lifespan of 3 years or more. And it certainly wouldn't make sense to deprive the market of the one "official" D&D character generation program just to prep for 4E.

Devise something for 4E, but continue to use/license E-Tools for 3E. I agree that WoTC will probably hold off on commenting until Dec 1st.

 

[3catcircus]

*sigh* No, that is not what happened. Because of accusations that CMP was going to do exactly what you are accusing them of doing, they started from the ground up on all datasets. Further, there was nothing stopping anyone from creating their own datasets on closed-content sources. PCGen and WotC (in the person of Anthony Valterra) sat down at GenCon '02 and Anthony told PCGen that they were violating WotC's IP. As such, PCGen removed all those files after GenCon. This was about 6 months prior to CMP doing datasets for PCGen.

Read my post more closely. I never said you took the *datasets* and turned around and sold it. I said that the *data* - not the *datsets* containing that data were what you charged for. If PCGen updates didn't *delete* non-core d20 datasets already installed on a user's PC from earlier versions, I'd have no beef with you guys and would probably have supported you.

The fact is, when I installed PCGen updates starting with the first rev that didn't include the datasets that were deemed infringing, all of the datasets that I had then carefully modified for my campaign particulars, fixed data-entry errors, and generally made my own, were wiped out. Luckily for me, I make backups.

"Not included" doesn't mean "wipe out what was already installed."

 

[kingpaul]

I never said you

They, not you. I'm with PCGen, not CMP.

The fact is, when I installed PCGen updates starting with the first rev that didn't include the datasets that were deemed infringing, all of the datasets that I had then carefully modified for my campaign particulars, fixed data-entry errors, and generally made my own, were wiped out. Luckily for me, I make backups.

Which is why we, PCGen, say to install in a new directory so you don't wipe out anything you may have modified.

 

[borc killer]

I think it's possible that WotC have done this, but are waiting to announce anything until CMP's license expires. I.e., as a gesture to CMP so their sales don't immediately tank. Otherwise, you'd get a month of people waiting for the new licensee and not buying anything from CMP.

As a harbinger of 4e... I don't buy it. If they were happy with CMP and didn't want to bring anything in-house, an impending edition change wouldn't be a good reason to suddenly drop the license. A dataset is a dataset.

I'm now guessing that PCGen data sets will be a perk of their new subscription service. Heck, that would certainly get me to sign up.

/agree 100%

I do also think some of this has to do with CMP not getting the DM Toolkit out the door. I have been waiting on it for… over 2 years now? Well a hell of a long time that’s for sure. I don’t know if we will ever know for sure why they dropped them but if they had the Toolkit out I think it would have been a MUCH harder decision on WoTC part to decide and drop it. We should know more at Dec.1 (i hope).

 

[DM_Jeff]

I hardly ever follow such things, don't even know if my opinion weighs in here, but...

E-Tools always stunk for me. It stunk out of the 3E PHB, the 200 fixes and patches after it, and the support later. I found the interface clunky and the problems frustrating as hell. So this effects me zero.

I first read about "DM Toolkit" before GenCon 2005, and I asked and asked and waited. What's up over there? Delays are inevitable I suppose, but the wait has ben painful to the point I just gave up. NPC Designer won me over for DM NPC utility anyway.

Doesn't anyone remember the little poll WotC had recently about offering a 'pay section' of their website, that was touted as having character management software and DM utility software and stuff like that? I mean, it was just a few weeks ago. This might point to a reason why they took the CMP toys away.

-DM Jeff

 

[Henry]

Doesn't anyone remember the little poll WotC had recently about offering a 'pay section' of their website, that was touted as having character management software and DM utility software and stuff like that? I mean, it was just a few weeks ago. This might point to a reason why they took the CMP toys away.

Yes, except that even the brightest optimist inside of me cannot with a straight face say that they'd have something ready within a month or six of the death of the CMP contract. I know the speed at which WotC moves on major undertakings, and there's no possible way.

 

[Steel_Wind]

This entire situation is regrettable. I use e-tools and have contiuned to buy data-sets over the years and I had expected that would continue.

I would gather that this is a sign that 4E is in the offing - not that the relative dearth of excitement re: D&D at Gencon 2006 needed much underscoring.

Still - the effect on CMP is wholly regrettable just the same. I wish you guys well.

 

[dvvega]

After reading this thread, an idea came into my mind ... I don't know the details of the agreement between WOTC and CMP, however could it be possible that WOTC had been "secretly" developing their own character tools for the subscription part of the website?

Thus on Dec 1st they can simply announce the new tools being available.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Possible, but unlikely. PCGen has a crapload of man-hours in it, as does ETools. The cost to make an engine capable of the existing d20 complexities is really high.

It is more likely that they either a) tried to turn PCGen into an online java app that relies on WotC data or b) host the PCGen data files on their subscription website but require a PCGen plug-in that will log into the server and prevent data copying. (FYI: PCGen already supports accessing data files over the internet, an encrypted access plug-in is non-trivial but far less complex than a full featured app)

Even then, I would expect them to need an internal team to maintain a forked PCGen once the data files become incompatible. That may or may not be cheaper than CMP but if they can get enough of a userbase for their online subscription service, it becomes a steady revenue stream with only incremental upgrades required.

It may also be possible that the NWN character creation engine has been forked off and has had the classes added to it, possibly by translating the PCGen data files into NWNese. It's a pretty spiffy thing for a CRPG and is already basically d20.

 

[rom90125]

Let's not limit the talk of WoTC datasets just for PCGen...perhaps they plan on releasing datasets that can be used by any 3rd party application...DM Genie and NPC Designer come to mind. Release an XML-formated dataset that can be plugged into the subscriber's favorite DM-tool of choice. Not only would WoTC reap the revenue from the dataset, but they could also license the interface to parse the XML...