Cohort Familiars?

[Psoriasitic Psion]

Defenders of the faith introduced the idea of using leadership to get a dragon for your paladin's mount..

My question is this:
Would you allow a wizard or sorceror to take leadership --
and then to designate their familiar as the cohort?

How it would work:
Lets say around the time you take the leadership feat, you have a friend cast "awaken" on your familiar (I know this spell doesnt affect "Magical beasts" but just call it a rationalization of the fact that the animal just became your cohort).
You would then be able to choose class levels for your familiar up to your maximum cohort level.. for instance, say your familiar was
an awakened fox. Looking in dragon 293, you'd find the ECL for an awakened fox, then compare it to your maximum cohort level, lets say 8. (i dont have dragon 293 in front of me.. but lets assume ecl 3). You could then take 5 levels of Druid, cleric, whatever.

Would this be too cheesy for you? I think its kind of like the old witches familiars, who were said to be able to cast spells themselves. or if you want your familiar to be a supersmart little dude, heck heres your chance. smarter than you even... (Like the owl from sword in the stone! hehe).
Arguments against it: Well, the creature would have quite a few HP's -- half your HP plus its class levels. That would make your familiar too tough! (on the other hand, with leadership you'd have a familiar AND a cohort, who could then make more attacks, you could kill one and still not kill the other, etc etc.)
to me its like putting all your eggs in one basket.. hehe.

what do you think?

 

[Crothian]

You don't need to awaken the familar, it gets smarter with your levels.

If a wizard wanted to put this much into his familiar, I'd have no problem with it, If it's an improved familar it will have an ecl of some type. There are many ways to improve ones familiar and I'm a fan of them all.

Edit: How the heck doe the guy above have zero posts?

 

[Psoriasitic Psion]

I'm not sure HOW

Ok, giving it an ecl of some type would be ok, so long as it wasnt TOO terribly high. I mean, I've already spent Improved familiar on my familiar - now I'm spending leadership - if you understand my meaning.

Proposed below is a stat block for an improved familiar with the cohort ability added in.

if I had access to an 8th level cohort, what ECL would you make my let say small air elemental familiar?
Dragon 293 suggests ECL 7. However, that would now make my Familiar a level 1 sorceror, certainly not a good tradeoff considering I could have an 8th level sorceror cohort instead and still have my familiar! hehe.
If I only had access to a level 7 cohort, taking leadership and applying it to my familiar would have NO effect on the familiar ..
hmm this is wierd

 

[Crothian]

WEll, he'd still be your familair with all the familiar powers. On top of that hwe would be a first level sorcerer. I think that's pretty fair.

 

[Psoriasitic Psion]

You'd let him take feats then too?
and I believe in the article #293 of dragon, they suggested all creatures on the list would be awakened for some reason or another. Besides, I'd want my familiar to have a chance to be smarter than the normal familiar (he is a cohort after all!).
So I would roll all his stats, and adjust them as though air elemental where his race, but his minimum intelligence would be whatever my wizard level would place him at.. hehe. so int COULD be a dump stat.. hehe.

 

[Crothian]

Of course he'd get feats, and attrubute boosts every 4th level. He's a character and follows all of those rules.

As for stats, I would not roll them up. Familiars get average for theirt race.

 

[Psoriasitic Psion]

But dont you agree..

but dont you agree that cohorts do not?

Hmm Its a toss up. You're losing alot of potential by designating your familiar as the cohort host.
If you can't have higher than average stats, most familiars will *not* qualify to be a spellcaster.
Kind of takes the edge off the ..."I want to have my familiar as my apprentice" type thing.

Actually, what I'm going for is something like this:
My character, a baklunish wizard / elemental savant, is something akin to the shai'ir out of arabian adventures. His "Familiar" - an "Air elemental".. is really something of a primodial djinni. Its an Air Elemental - but something more. sound cool?

 

[Crothian]

From the look of it small air elemental stats adjustment would be Dex +6, Int -2. That's from T&B. However, in the MM they seem to be Dex +6, Int -6. So, either way Int is the low state. So, awakening him might not be a bad idea.

Having a familiar as a cohort makes him an NPC and as such he needs to follow all those rules which include having an ecl. Otherwise, it just isn't balanced at all.

As for rolling the stats, I'd personall do a 22 point system, to keep it a little weaker then the PCs. With 22 points oyu can easily do the following:

Str 10
Dex 12 (+6) =18
Con 12
Int 8 (your going to awaken him anyway, so why spend points here?)
Wis 10
Cha 16

By far a very good cohort.

 

[Psoriasitic Psion]

I agree.
So far, according to the ECL rules in dragon 293, I would have my familiar become a 1st level sorceror.. not as powerful as an 8th level sorceror, which I could get with my cohort from leadership, but a far more interesting one! hehe.
I think his stats would be basicly exactly what you have there. hit INT would be the minimum for a familiar of my level --- 9 IIRC.

One of the things I stopped to consider though is this: he really gains only small benefit from being ANY class. I mean, he doesnt gain bab until it would be better than his masters (never, unless you take a warrior class).. his saves will either be his or his masters, more than likely his masters on most, because they will of course be higher, and his HP will be the higher of his total or half his masters.. which in this case (a 1st level sorc/air elemental) would be the better of 27hp (half mine!) or 2d8 + 1d4.
So in my eyes, taking a cohort/familiar is of little benefit as far as powergaming goes. to me its a more "role playing thing" and I hope it works! its a cool idea (imho).