D&D General Collaboration With Your Players?

[prabe]

I voted Almost Never as most of the players I've encountered simply don't care to add anything to the world. They wish to show up with a character they have put limited thought into and engage with the world on a limited level. At least, that's with most D&D only, player only types I've encountered. In systems other than D&D I find the level of engagement goes up, sometimes because the system forces the players to do it, sometimes because the players simply have access to more things that allow for increased engagement. I also find that players who also DM have a higher level of engagement.

But, yeah, for the average player that never does the DM thing, the level of world building they choose to engage in is very low.

One can't help but wonder about the extent to which your feelings about players who want say in the world is colored by the players you've gamed with. I mean, from your descriptions, they're either slugs who won't engage or speshul snowflakes who only want to play one way (horror of horrors it's an elf!).

 

[Puddles]

I talked about my experiences a bit in another thread, but I let my players have free reign with their backstories during character creation. These backstories form the first building blocks of the world and then I build the rest of the campaign world around them.

For example in my current campaign my players came up with the following during character creation:

1. The Tiefling Druid comes from a nomadic tribe of Tieflings called the “Ama” who inhabit a region with a climate like Central America, they tend to sheep that are currently afflicted by a blight and they use peyote to divine the future.

2. The Half-elf Bard comes from a city called South Netha, and is from a “race” of Half-elves rather than having mixed parents. The city is Mediterranean in climate, has many scholars and his father is one. There is a gang that tattoo themselves with a black cross on their hands that he has had runnings with.

3. The human rogue comes from a city (unnamed) that is partitioned between the rich Elves and the poorer humans, he grew up in the slums dreaming of a better life, and one day robbed an elven merchant and now is on the run.

Between session 0 and session 1, I took these building blocks and created a world around them, also incorporating the things I wanted in the world, (mainly Dwarves and Gnomes because they are awesome - and a wintery locale to begin in). I really like this approach because it makes the campaign feel like “our” campaign, rather than “my” campaign.

From experience I find worlds too set-in-stone to be stifling when creating characters. If I am creating a character that comes from the jungles, I want to be able to create that jungle and detail what it is like and what inhabits it, rather than having to bug my DM to come up with a few example jungles for me to pick from. So as a DM I find it important to give my players the same freedom in character creation.

 

[zarionofarabel]

One can't help but wonder about the extent to which your feelings about players who want say in the world is colored by the players you've gamed with. I mean, from your descriptions, they're either slugs who won't engage or speshul snowflakes who only want to play one way (horror of horrors it's an elf!).

Maybe it is. Honestly most of the (D&D only) players I have met don't engage in world building of any kind, at best they will outline a basic background for their character that includes few concrete details. I've also met a huge number of (D&D only) players who do not want to drive the narrative in any fashion, they are content to simply follow the GMs plot, or events of a module, with little deviation. Then again, I've been lucky to have gamed with players who fully engage in world building and narrative driving, just not the D&D crowd. I much prefer systems that have mechanics specifically aimed at either allowing or forcing the players to drive the narrative as I do not script plots or use published modules. I don't mind world building, but the way I run games, I don't really do much world building myself. I usually start with a basic idea and the world gets built as the group plays.

 

[pogre]

I voted sometimes. Some campaigns are set in a challenging situations that I want PCs to deal with - they cannot change much about the parameters. Sometimes it is wide open and I encourage players to develop whatever they want and help me place it in the campaign world. Most of my players are not that interested in creating campaign material - they want to 'discover' things, not create them.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Maybe it is. Honestly most of the (D&D only) players I have met don't engage in world building of any kind, at best they will outline a basic background for their character that includes few concrete details. I've also met a huge number of (D&D only) players who do not want to drive the narrative in any fashion, they are content to simply follow the GMs plot, or events of a module, with little deviation. Then again, I've been lucky to have gamed with players who fully engage in world building and narrative driving, just not the D&D crowd.

There are a lot of feedback mechanisms going on here; D&D players don't engage in worldbuilding because they've learned the DM has the authority over the world and will drive the narrative and the DM has such strong authority over the world partly because the players don't engage in worldbuilding and narrative driving. And because of this the rules don't encourage this either.

 

[zarionofarabel]

There are a lot of feedback mechanisms going on here; D&D players don't engage in worldbuilding because they've learned the DM has the authority over the world and will drive the narrative and the DM has such strong authority over the world partly because the players don't engage in worldbuilding and narrative driving. And because of this the rules don't encourage this either.

I have to disagree as I used to run very player driven campaigns using D&D, older editions, but still D&D. I also still run very player driven games using systems that have no mechanics for providing incentive for the players to world build. I have just found that most players aren't all that interested in world building. Most players I have met want something closer to a CRPG experience where there is a quest given by a quest giver and they need merely to complete the quest. The level of player engagement goes up if they have played games that have mechanics that encourage player world building. The level of engagement also goes way up if they are GMs. However, as most RPG players are neither GMs nor do they play anything other than D&D, most players don't want to world build.

 

[prabe]

I have to disagree as I used to run very player driven campaigns using D&D, older editions, but still D&D. I also still run very player driven games using systems that have no mechanics for providing incentive for the players to world build. I have just found that most players aren't all that interested in world building. Most players I have met want something closer to a CRPG experience where there is a quest given by a quest giver and they need merely to complete the quest. The level of player engagement goes up if they have played games that have mechanics that encourage player world building. The level of engagement also goes way up if they are GMs. However, as most RPG players are neither GMs nor do they play anything other than D&D, most players don't want to world build.

I have found the players in my D&D campaigns to be willing and able to collaborate in building the world--they just need to be asked, sometimes encouraged. Sometimes reined in a little, even. I've never run games like a CRPG--the people in my groups play those already, and computers run those better than I could. I specifically tell them there are blank spaces in the map, and I will help the players find them.

They don't have quite the same opportunities to collaborate in the world-building once play starts, because by that point things are much more set.

I have found that systems that are supposed to allow tables to sit around and build the setting before play take far longer than the results are worth, with the people I game with.