Combat Balance question regarding Bastion of Broken Souls (Spoiler Alert)

[Shin Okada]

As I got a Colossal Red Dragon mini (if I can call it so), I am planning of running Bastion of Broken Souls module in (not so near) future. It was a 3.0e mod. But we will use 3.5e rule.

Now I read the stats of the Great Red Wyrm Ashardaron and have some question and concern about it's combat-balance.

As that wyrm is also a half-fiend, it uses spell-like abilities. According to the module, his caster level for spell-like abilities is 19th. It seems strange. Both in 3.0e and 3.5e, the caster level of half-fiend's spell-like abilities = HD, right? Am I missing something?

Then, assuming I am right and the module is wrong, how PCs of appropriate level (somewhere around 19-20) can survive CL 40 Blasphemy? I am afraid of that the combat ends in one turn, by TPK.

 

[frankthedm]

According to the module, his caster level for spell-like abilities is 19th. It seems strange. Both in 3.0e and 3.5e, the caster level of half-fiend's spell-like abilities = HD, right? Am I missing something?

Perhaps that was reffering to the dragon spell likes?

Then, assuming I am right and the module is wrong, how PCs of appropriate level (somewhere around 19-20) can survive CL 40 Blasphemy? I am afraid of that the combat ends in one turn, by TPK.

As it should! That dragon is CR 29 in 3.5. Plus that spell is defeated by Silence, which a high level party should be using often.

 

[cmanos]

Consider in 3.5 a half-fiend great red wyrm is a CR 29. By 3.5, 4 L20 characters would not survive. Not "they should run away". They will not survive.

You might want to consider lowering his age category a bit.

 

[Shin Okada]

Hmm. Lowering it's age categoly does not seems right. Legendary Ashardalon should be a great wyrm. Besides, if I make it smaller, what's the meaning of using the colossal dragon mini.

By calculation, his CR is now 29. +3 higher than that in 3.0e. But anyway, I am afraid that even 30th-level characters may likely to die easily.

And even a very old half-fiend/half-red dragon (calculated CR=24) has HD of 31. Enough to kill 21st-level character by Blasphemy.

Hmm .... maybe I shoud use fiendish template instead of half-fiend template? Half-fiend templates seems to be broken at higher HD.

 

[frankthedm]

Consider in 3.5 a half-fiend great red wyrm is a CR 29. By 3.5, 4 L20 characters would not survive. Not "they should run away". They will not survive.

You might want to consider lowering his age category a bit.

That Blaspheme will still be a TPK unless the Dragon is dropped all the way down to adult. At mature adult the party will be fataly paralyzed without saving throw. And lowered that low, the dragon itself will become a push over.

Red dragon adult CR 15; 22 HD
Red dragon mature adult CR 18 HD 25

Equal to caster level Dazed 1 round
Up to caster level -1 Weakened 2d6 STR for 2d4 rounds, dazed 1 round
Up to caster level -5 Paralyzed 1d10 minutes, Weakened 2d6 STR for 2d4 rounds, dazed 1 round
Up to caster level -10 Killed: No save; not a "Death Effect", paralyzed, weakened, dazed

Does it even need the template? Would a description of it looking tainted be enough?

 

[Shin Okada]

Does it even need the template? Would a description of it looking tainted be enough?

Maybe you are right. A great red wyrm is an impressive monster as it is. There should be no need to make it flashier.

 

[Nail]

Couple things:

#1) His CL for the Blasphemy is irrelevant. High level PCs should always have a silence spell handy. It's just dumb not to have a wand of it by 15th level or so. If this fact really, really bothers you, then house-rule Blasphemy. (It's broken anyway.)

#2) A CR 29 is hard...but not impossible for a APL 20 party. My group has done it, as have others groups. What you, as the DM, have to keep an eye on is the EL. If you put a CR 29 in his own palace surrounded by his own traps and guards just waiting for the PCs to walk in...that is a TPK.

 

[Nail]

Maybe you are right. A great red wyrm is an impressive monster as it is. There should be no need to make it flashier.

How about Fiendish rather than Half-fiend?

 

[AuraSeer]

Since this battle happens in a unique area, you can fudge it by applying some special rules. You could declare that the environment of the Bastion nullifies all instadeath effects, or perhaps just the four alignment-word spells. (This would apply to the PCs too, but that's a moot point, because there is no way their holy word or finger of death was going to have affected Ashardalon anyhow.)

Anyway, if you're looking to fix all the balance problems and rules errors in this module, I wish you luck. You've got an awful lot of work ahead of you.

 

[Infiniti2000]

By calculation, his CR is now 29. +3 higher than that in 3.0e.

+2 higher than in 3.0. The red dragon CR was upped by +1 and the half-fiend template was upped by +1 for HD over 11.

IMO, the best solution is to houserule blasphemy, since it's broken at even much lower levels just by tweaking a character build with death knell, evil domain, bead of karma, etc.

At worst, you should be able to just use the 3.0 stats (and CR). I don't see as how that would affect anything, really.