Combat Challenge and Opportunity Attack

[bjorn2bwild]

If you have the fighter class with the Warpriest Paragon path do you get to take your OA granted by the Paragon power AND your combat challenge attack against a marked foe who shifts or attacks someone other than you? I'm wondering whether this was an oversight or not in the Warpriest path that didn't get changed when the fighter combat challenge was changed into a non-OA attack.

Now having had a chance to take a look at the rules, I'm inclined to say that while, yes, the character in this case could get off two attacks, it's not particularly unbalanced as the warpriest's mark can only affect a single opponent at a time.

It's similar to the paladin, in that he can mark more than one opponent at once, but can only challenge one opponent at a time (excepting certain powers that do multiple simultaneous challenges).

 

[dark666105]

um the warpriests MARK and the fighters MARK and the paladins MARK all cannot be on the same target, it specifically states for each that only one MARK can be on the target at a time, each of those abilities are MARKs unlike the warlocks curse and the rangers hunter's quarry since those dont provoke damage if the applier doesnt get attacked. im sure they did this to prevent things like oh say a whole party of paladins or fighters, possibly all paragoning into warpriest all marking up the same target, basically since its a compulsion for some of those it would make the enemy go insane, and force them to take damage and penalties no matter what.

 

[helium3]

Yeah, because you get one opportunity action, and one immediate action per turn.

You get one opportunity action PER OPPONENT, so technically you can have multiple OA's in a round. Just not against the same opponent.

 

[Danceofmasks]

um the warpriests MARK and the fighters MARK and the paladins MARK all cannot be on the same target, it specifically states for each that only one MARK can be on the target at a time, each of those abilities are MARKs unlike the warlocks curse and the rangers hunter's quarry since those dont provoke damage if the applier doesnt get attacked. im sure they did this to prevent things like oh say a whole party of paladins or fighters, possibly all paragoning into warpriest all marking up the same target, basically since its a compulsion for some of those it would make the enemy go insane, and force them to take damage and penalties no matter what.

But .. if you're a fighter/warpriest, and you mark the target with the warpriest mark (you can choose not to combat challenge), then that bonus attack is an OA .. which gives you bonuses for Wis, combat reflexes, etc.
Now, you make your OA, and that's an attack ... so now apply combat challenge mark (which overrides the warpriest mark).
Since your OA interrupted the target's shift, the question becomes .. can you trigger your combat challenge class feature to get an attack 'cos it's shifting?

I'm inclined to say no 'cos that would be circular .. getting an attack triggered by action that was only possible due to an OA that was also triggered by the same action.
But ... I'm not sure it's not legal.

 

[Chen_93]

But .. if you're a fighter/warpriest, and you mark the target with the warpriest mark (you can choose not to combat challenge), then that bonus attack is an OA .. which gives you bonuses for Wis, combat reflexes, etc.
Now, you make your OA, and that's an attack ... so now apply combat challenge mark (which overrides the warpriest mark).
Since your OA interrupted the target's shift, the question becomes .. can you trigger your combat challenge class feature to get an attack 'cos it's shifting?

I'm inclined to say no 'cos that would be circular .. getting an attack triggered by action that was only possible due to an OA that was also triggered by the same action.
But ... I'm not sure it's not legal.

Hmm I never thought of it this way, but I suspect it doesn't work like that. An action resumes after an interrupt. Unless resuming an action can re-trigger reactions this won't work. This is technically how things work in MTG, though there is much clearer wording and technical rules in that case.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Not true, though ...

If you think of the shift as being on the stack, and you play a "reduce damage dealt by target spell to zero, draw a card." .. you can resolve your card, then play "counter target green spell." since the hurricane is still on the stack.

 

[underfoot]

Would you apply Combat Superiority (+wis to attack roll and stopping movement) to attacks made by Combat Challenge? RAW would say not, because Combat Challenge is an immediate action and not an OA. I think the spirit of Combat Superiority would let you. Or would being able to stop movement twice be to OP?

 

[keterys]

Combat Challenge and Combat Superiority are separate, and I think should remain separate. People can shift (but pay a price) next to a fighter. Combat challenge is once a round. Combat Superiority forces people to pay attention to the fighter when moving and gives him a notable bonus on opportunity attacks, etc.

While opportunity attacking 1000 creatures may seem ludicrous, it's equally ludicrous that the 1000 creatures could even try to run past someone holding a pass. Or be on the battle mat. I mean, you really shouldn't see more than like 20 things at once.

This simply sets it up so that it's not '1 guy gets OAed and dies... everyone else just runs past'.

Now a defender really can say 'You shall not pass!' and mean it. Good.

 

[DracoSuave]

The difference between Combat Challenge and OAs is important:

You only get one CC attack per round (it being an immediate action) but you can have all the OAs you want, only once per turn (it being an opportunity action).

So, yes you can attack a marked target making a ranged attack like a fool.

And if they had an immediate action to counter those?

TOO BAD!

It can't use immediate actions on its own turn.

And if this somehow would trigger an opportunity action from it?

TOO BAD!

It can't use opportunity actions on its own turn.


That said, if you're deadset on locking down enemies around you, Polearm Gamble is the way to go. Keep them adjacent, and if they shift away... POW with Combat Challenge!!! and then POW with Polearm Gamble's OA which stops them right next to you from Combat Superiority.

 

[underfoot]

Polearm Gamle only gives the OA when a non-adjecent opponent enters a square adject to you. So the CS advantage would do the opposite (keeps them at a distance) rather than preventing them from moving away.