Combat Challenge & Bulettes At-Will power.

[MeMeMeMe]

My earlier answer was obviously wrong - I should have read the Bulette description.
But after thinking about this, i think the fighter may well be able to attack.
I'm not sure though. Here's waht I'm thinking:

The fighter gets its Immediate attack "whenever a marked enemy that is adjacent to you shifts or makes an attack that does not include you".
The Bulette moves as part of the Bite attack, so the question is: is the move a separate action, or is it part of the bite attack? If the latter, then the fighter can attack it. (Since this is not on OA, it won't stop the bulette's move. The fighter would attack as the bulette leaps away, and then the bulette continues its attack normally.)

That also raises the question: if someone charges, does that count as an attack, when the attack is not adjacent, but the move is.

I think, on the whole, it's better to assume the move is separate and so doesn't trigger the attack, but it's food for thought.

 

[eamon]

As long as you're consistent, there's no problem either way.

A conservative, more literal reading wouldn't allow an attack since a move isn't a shift, thus combat challenge doesn't trigger. I'd definitely regard the move as separate, by the way, so the fact that it's an attack that includes a move isn't relevant (that's just simpler and more believable than the alternative, in which the exact same events can be resolved differently depending on their "packaging").

A more interpretive reading could allow combat challenge on the ground that a fighter is intended to hit even those things that move away carefully. Based on the errata of come and get it and others, and the wording of shift, it's pretty clear that the various types of movement were less precisely thought out than you might hope; so there's grounds to choose a loose interpretation (rules intent) over a conservative one. If a bulette weren't jumping, its movement would almost certainly be explicitly mentioned as a shift. In any case, the bulette entry just isn't long enough to go into enough detail to work out these things.

Whatever you do, be consistent, I'd say.

 

[Goblyns Hoard]

... so the question is: is the move a separate action, or is it part of the bite attack? ...

Not really an expert on the 4E rules yet, but I think this is fairly clear. By the text in the OP (no books on me at the mo) it says that the move is "as a free action". To me that makes it not part of the bite action it's a free action the bulette has the option of using prior to the attack. Just my tuppence worth.

 

[DracoSuave]

Firstly, if they wanted the bullette to shift to the new location they'd probably just say 'shift' as it's more elegant and easier to grok.

Therefore, we can probably be sure that it wasn't meant to be the same as shifting, and wasn't intended to react to things that work with shifting.

For example, difficult terrain (it jumps over it) and Combat Challenge.

However, if the target is close enough that the Fighter can hit the bulette (say, with a polearm) when the target gets attacked the Fighter can get its licks in.

Time for the fighter to start readying actions if he wants to be stopping bulettes today.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I'd want to let the fighter use his immediate interrupt. As for the logic, either a) the bullete's "move as a free action without provoking" is close enough, in spirit, to shifting or b) the bullete's 'Bite' at-will is an attack that doesn't include the fighter, so as soon as it uses it (jumps) that invokes the CC. Whichever one you're more comfortable with.

The MM isn't really consistent with skirmishers, giving some long-distance shifts and others attacks that include movement that doesn't provoke (with conditions). Many, for instance, have move & attack powers that "don't provoke when moving away from the target" (words to that effect), while others shift & attack, or move without provoking & attack. Not at all consistent, but that's exception-bassed-design with multiple authors for you.

 

[ODAR]

i'm just learning a lot in this forum about the rules of 4ed. In 15 days i expect to play the game as a master.

My thought on this matter is like it reads in the MM:
Bite (standard; at-will)
Before it bites, the bulette can make a standing long jump (as a
free action) without provoking opportunity attacks; +14 vs. AC;
2d6 + 7 damage, or 4d6 + 7 damage against a prone target.

It means the bulette does a jump as a free action, jump is a movement and then would provoke OA, but the power gives the bulette avoidance about it. This is not a shift then CC don't comes into play.

 

[keterys]

This is a nice example rules situation! At any rate, I agree that the fighter is mostly out of luck.

 

[Mahali]

I'd say the fighter gets an attack.

I'd take a whole turn view as did the 3.x versions.

Everyone is moving at the same time, it's just broken into the artificial turns to make it manageable as opposed to "everyone move 5', everyone move another 5'".

I don't think it's game breaking to allow the CC attack due to the Bullete attacking someone else and it fits with the concept of CC and being a Fighter.

Unrelated note: It's bad enough you can move so much farther on diagonals now.

 

[DracoSuave]

Unrelated note: It's bad enough you can move so much farther on diagonals now.

It's the same distance you could move in 3.0. The staggered movement rates on diagonal is a strictly 3.5 deal.

 

[Chen_93]

This would, like several other situations, be clarified if it clearly stated somewhere what an "attack" consisted of. Because THAT is the trigger for the CC attack (or shifting which doesn't occur in this example).

I believe it is generally agreed upon that the simple use of an attack power does not, necessarilly, constitute an attack. In this case, I'd certainly say the part that triggers the CC attack is when the bulette actually makes the bite and NOT when it performs its free jump. I would not let the fighter get his CC attack when the bulette jumped but clearly would if the fighter was within reach after the jump and the attack was performed.