Level Up (A5E) Combat Maneuvers Feeling a bit Underpowered?

[gaivnvinv]

Hey guys,

I've been reading over a lot of the combat maneuvers, and compared to the 4e and 5e battlemaster maneuvers, they seem really lackluster. For both 4e and Battlemaster maneuvers, most of them gave a damage bonus when using them along with whatever other effect they did, and I feel like although the utility of them all are there, the lack of that damage boost makes many of the maneuvers feel a lot worse than in older versions. Thoughts?

 

[Mike Myler]

Over the course of the year since they were first designed combat maneuvers lost most of their damage boosts and the focus became very much on the doing of Cool Things™. If you wanted to get more damage out of them however, I could definitely see a homebrew feat or archetype that does something to the effect of "when using a combat maneuver that includes an attack roll, after hitting you can spend 1 exertion to deal extra damage based on the maneuver's degree (1st: 1d4, 2nd: 1d6, 3rd: 1d8, 4th: 1d10, 5th: 1d12)."

 

[Stalker0]

So lets take a look, what manuevers help us in the raw damage (or more attacks = more damage) department?

1st Degree
Doubleshot
Speed over Strength
Legion Stance
Raking Strikes (before extra attack kicks in)
Wounding Strike

2nd Degree
Quickdraw
Twist the Blade
Use the Pain
Trample
Instant Strike


So there are a decent numbers. Its not as simple as the battlemaster "do X and get Y more damage", but there are definitely maneuvers out there if you want to focus on bringing the pain.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Hey guys,

I've been reading over a lot of the combat maneuvers, and compared to the 4e and 5e battlemaster maneuvers, they seem really lackluster. For both 4e and Battlemaster maneuvers, most of them gave a damage bonus when using them along with whatever other effect they did, and I feel like although the utility of them all are there, the lack of that damage boost makes many of the maneuvers feel a lot worse than in older versions. Thoughts?

IMO this is a problem in standard 5e as well, and it isn’t a thing that really happens to explicitly magical stuff.

I keep thinking about redesigning martial abilities with an eye toward making them feel less like a single sword thrust and more like a thing that takes most of the round to complete, if that makes sense.

 

[LionheadGaming]

Wait until you look at Sanguine Knot and you realize like all of the 1st and 2nd degree manuvers are just grappling and knocking creatures prone. Woo, really needed 5 ways to do that. Definitely didn't want combo manuvers.

 

[gaivnvinv]

Wait until you look at Sanguine Knot and you realize like all of the 1st and 2nd degree manuvers are just grappling and knocking creatures prone. Woo, really needed 5 ways to do that. Definitely didn't want combo manuvers.

yeah thats another really underwhelming thing. So many of these manuevers don't do interesting and new things and are just "Grapple" or "Knock Prone" or "Disarm". That's another reason i'm kinda feeling disappointed, not a lot of damage boosters and new ideas and the maneuvers that aren't those two things are all the same.

 

[Composer99]

I mean, keep in mind that classes using combat maneuvers are meant to be about as effective in combat as their O5e counterparts, so I don't think the design could have made the maneuvers boost damage that much.

Not speaking to any issues about maneuvers having duplicate effects, here, just the damage. (Although it's not bad if maneuvers in different traditions have some duplicate effects, given how strictly the traditions are siloed for most classes, up to a point.)

 

[VelvetHobo]

While it would be a bit confusing, one can still take the battlemaster archetype and get the "damaging" maneuvers, no?

 

[noodohs]

I'm just excited to have other things to do than just attack (for non-battlemaster martials).

 

[Timespike]

Yeah, I really like the tactical options. A lack of damage output isn't really the thing holding a lot of martial classes back in O5E, it's that damage is just about all you can do in a lot of circumstances. Getting access to something like Shoulder Check that allows you to get that enemy who has gotten right up next to a squishy (or already damaged) party member OUT OF THERE as a reaction is very welcome.