Combatting Force Effects (Cube/Wall of Force and Forcecage)

[Eye Tyrant]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I still am not sure exactly how to deal with this pesky PC. A little more info may be in order...

PC party consists of 6 PCs (5 17th Level and one 16th Level).

I am running The Bastion of Broken Souls (under 3.5 rules).

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For those that are familiar with that module, they have just entered the Bastion and are about to encounter the Half Dragon forces on the other side of the doorway (these guys have had no less then 4 rounds to prepare as the crystalline door has a two-way mirror effect that allows those on the inside to see out).

The encounter includes the following:

Kobold/Half Dragon (Red) Ftr 18
Ettin/Half Dragon (Red) Barb 10
Advanced Chimera
Advanced Dire Bear/Half Dragon (Red)

The PCs are expecting to fight a Male Great Wyrm Red Dragon/Half Fiend by adventures end.

There are also a group of Vrocks (6), and Balor (2) in their near future (before they encounter the Dragon), and another Half Dragon Cleric type...

This makes up most of the forces left that the PCs will have to fight with the eception being the local inhabitants (ie. random encounter with Energons).

 

[Infiniti2000]

As far as casting spells through a Force Cube, the text seems to imply that only the spells listed can't be cast through the Cube so it seems like a reasonable ruling to me.

I don't know what you mean by "spells listed" unless the DMG has more info than the SRD. Hitting cube face #5 "keeps out all things." That is, all gases, wind, etc., all nonliving matter, all living matter, and all magic. The second table, which btw is not entirely spells, shows a list of attack forms that drain charges. Yes, these also cannot be cast into or out of the cube (or used in the case of the horn), but on levels #4 or #5, nothing can be. I put forward the idea that anything that can't be cast into the cube, can't be cast out of it. This idea is reinforced by that list as well (otherwise, the possessor should be able to apply those attack forms out).

So, are we talking about the same thing? Does anyone disagree about my idea?

 

[irdeggman]

I don't know what you mean by "spells listed" unless the DMG has more info than the SRD. Hitting cube face #5 "keeps out all things." That is, all gases, wind, etc., all nonliving matter, all living matter, and all magic. The second table, which btw is not entirely spells, shows a list of attack forms that drain charges. Yes, these also cannot be cast into or out of the cube (or used in the case of the horn), but on levels #4 or #5, nothing can be. I put forward the idea that anything that can't be cast into the cube, can't be cast out of it. This idea is reinforced by that list as well (otherwise, the possessor should be able to apply those attack forms out).

So, are we talking about the same thing? Does anyone disagree about my idea?

From the SRD

When the cube of force is active, attacks dealing more than 30 points of damage drain 1 charge for every 10 points of damage beyond 30 that they deal. Spells that affect the integrity of the screen also drain extra charges. These spells (given in the list below) cannot be cast into or out of the cube:

Attack form Extra Charges
Horn of Blasting 6
Wall of Fire 2
Passwall 3
Disentegrate 6
Phase Door 5
Prismatic Spray 7

Except for the Horn of Blasting they are all spells and in the list below. Now the text specifically talks about how many charges are consumed when damage is done to the cube's effect and it specifically talks about how spells (those listed) also drain charges. So. . . .

 

[Eye Tyrant]

I came across the same thing, but my players insist this is a "special" wall as stated in the DMG... They assume that special means one-way spell casting, except as noted (as players would)... I assume that special means that the wall is cube-like and moves with the caster UNLIKE a normal wall.

 

[irdeggman]

I came across the same thing, but my players insist this is a "special" wall as stated in the DMG... They assume that special means one-way spell casting, except as noted (as players would)... I assume that special means that the wall is cube-like and moves with the caster UNLIKE a normal wall.

Notice that the text states the wall “keeps out” the specified effect. It doesn’t state it totally blocks it, like the wall of force spell does. The effects range from gases, wind, etc. to “keeps out all things.”

Breath weapons and spells cannot pass through the wall in either direction, although dimension door, teleport, and similar effects can bypass the barrier

Special normally means that the text listed is used instead of the referenced text (or that compared to).


IMO I would rule based on the entire text (both Cube of Force and Wall of Force compared) - that the cube allows casting outwards all spells except for those listed (pretty much the text states that those spells cannot be cast outwards. Special in this case also included the "variable" effect of the cube. Depending on what sice is pushed the "type" of protection is determined, unlike a Wall of FOrce that always works the same.

Wall of Force is only susceptible to the spells (and items) specifically listed while the effect of the cube of force is based on a number of charges - which are consumed based on the amount of damage the walls take. I read this damage as being increased by the type of spell/effect used. So a disentegrate spell would reduce thenumber of charges based on total damage plus 6 (they are called "extra charges" in the table).

 

[gfunk]

I am running The Bastion of Broken Souls (under 3.5 rules).

Check out my Bastion SH (from 3.0), it may inspire you with a few tactics or ideas.
The link is in my sig -- the section where we enter the Bastion to fight Po and his buddies is in Session 45. Here is a direct link, http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=995046&postcount=49

 

[Eye Tyrant]

Check out my Bastion SH (from 3.0), it may inspire you with a few tactics or ideas.
The link is in my sig -- the section where we enter the Bastion to fight Po and his buddies is in Session 45. Here is a direct link, http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=995046&postcount=49

Interesting... I thought of changing Po's class... but Fighter may be best. My Nalf actually was able to daze someone with its smite (sparkly rainbow demon?), and my retriever did turn someone to stone (if only for a round). The stench of my advanced hezrous (DC: 27) was still overcome, but the sickening effect still helped a little. I think I will ressurect the Cathezar to enter the fray at the end of the fight with a sucker punch to the weakest PC. I should be able to use her more stragtegically this time (it will be her 3rd encounter with the PCs)

 

[gfunk]

I think I will ressurect the Cathezar to enter the fray at the end of the fight with a sucker punch to the weakest PC. I should be able to use her more stragtegically this time (it will be her 3rd encounter with the PCs)

The Cathezar was a terrible opponent for us, that's for sure. The first time, she took us totally by surprise and spanked us hard. The ability of one of our PCs to plane shift allowed us to escape in time.

The second time, we invaded her lair and despite gating a Solar, she was still able to hold her own. She kept teleporting around and even fled to Mechanus via a reality maelstrom courtesy of our sorcerer. In the end though, we managed to take her down.

The third time (after she was brought back by Demogorgon) she met us in the Bastion. This time though we beat the snot out of her courtesy of Nurn who sneak attacked the hell out of her with a full attack action.