Comments on Eldrich 2 -or- Monte Cook crack addict?

[Psion]

Another point on the sneak attacks:

A 1st level sorcerer/X level rogue can cast summon monster I and summon a celestical badger to help him flank. Oh no, the sorcerer and summon monster I is broken! The whole WotC design team is on crack!

 

[Berandor]

Furthermore, the rogue would have to stand next to the target, possible getting AoO for his spell note.

1 round duration means that the spell ends right before the rogue's next turn.

so:
move - invisibilty
standard - attack
(+ 5ft.-step)

It's not too hard.

Berandor

 

[River]

No You get to sneak attack the same round! the going invisible is a move equivelent action!

How many times can you go invisible per day? Remember that an invisible rogue gets to sneak attack next round.

 

[River]

You assume this rogue has no Charisma. Most rogues do. Potentially a rogue with 18 Charisma could pull the trick 7 times a day!

1st-level alt.bard gets three spellnotes. The spellnote Momentary Disappearance allows one to become invisible for 1 round/2 levels, with text nearly identical to the invisibility spell.

So a multiclassed rogueX/alt.bard1 could become invisible for one round, 3 times per day.

 

[River]

I will not question for even a moment the crack smoking habit of the WOTC design team. I imagine the home office as sort of a new Jack City. How else does one explain the Psi-warrior and Haste spells?

However, your celestial badger example is a Full Round action. Bard dissapearence is a move equivelent action meaning the bard thief can cloack and attack in the same round. Or better yet attack then recloak. In some cases its almost as good, or possibly better than improved invisibility!

River

Another point on the sneak attacks:

A 1st level sorcerer/X level rogue can cast summon monster I and summon a celestical badger to help him flank. Oh no, the sorcerer and summon monster I is broken! The whole WotC design team is on crack!

 

[PenguinKing]

No You get to sneak attack the same round! the going invisible is a move equivelent action!

Of course - since the duration is only one round, it will wear off right before your action comes up next round. Either way, only one sneak attack.

- Sir Bob.

P.S. Nih!

 

[Victim]

Wow, who would have thought that multiclassing would give a character some benefits. A smart rogue will sneak attack often enough that they don't need to waste a level on Bard, thus setting back attack bonuses, some skills, sneak attack damage, and special powers. They don't need invisibility for 1 round up to 7 times per day to get sneak attacks.

As for Vivid discharge, the damage per spell level guidelines in the DMG say 2nd spells with one target can have up to 10d6. Vivid Discharge is just a gimicky way of doing that damage. Just because most existing 2nd level spells suck for damage because they have a duration doesn't they all have to do no damage.

 

[Ma'varkith]

How else does one explain the Psi-warrior and Haste spells?

Eh? As much as I hate to fuel off-topic tangents or feed trolls, this statement made no sense.

 

[Henry@home]

But River, is it still certain that a level 1 bard gets his or her invisibility for ever one round? If they are level 2, they've devoted more into it, and still only get one sneak attack for their trouble.

Two things can defeat this trick:

• Readied actions can be applied just like for spellcasters.
• By the rules, a silence spell stops a Monte.Bard cold, and acts as if it were an antimagic field. This is even worse than for a standard Bard!

Also, don't forget that the bard is singing. He HAS to sing. How many people do you know can remain hidden and sing at the same time? An easy Listen check would give away their position very quickly. It wouldn't stop the atttack, but it sure would allow you to retaliate.

As I noted before, Rogues using the Quicker than the Eye Feat, Spellcasters higher than 2nd leveland summoning allies, and all spellcasters using Haste can follow this same trick with just as predicable and in fact less interruptible results.

In conclusion, I don't see that big of a deal in it. Might I suggest that you are partaking in light illegal narcotics use yourself to suggest that there is a problem with such a character class?

 

[Psion]

Well, I finished reading through BoEM 2, and have decided that there are many spells I question.

The call of the gem series... okay, their effects aren't necessarily devatating, but the very concept that they get no save bothers me. And it could be the equivalent of a no save death spell if you (frex) make a character attack the king.

Extend charge - neat idea, very useful. But for a 3rd level spell letting you use your favorite staff multiple times (which can have far higher than 3rd level spells) without expending charges is a little too generous. I'd lower the duration or limit the total spell levels provided by this spell, or both.

Robe of reflection seems a level or two too low... compared to elemental protection spells of a similar level, it is a little powerful.