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Communism (& Socialism) in RPGs

Storm Raven

First Post
JDJblatherings said:
Sparta was a city-state of slave owning hair dressing warriors. Nopt very commie.

However, the homioi were expected to live under the exact same conditions, and all had the exact same property at their disposal, and were prohibited from engaging in occupations other than service to the state. For the homioi, one could argue that there was a very collectivist way of life being led.

For the helotes, life was rather different.
 

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Nifft

Penguin Herder
Agree. If Athens can be a Democracy without universal suffrage, I don't see why Sparta can't have significant Communism despite lacking universal egalitarianism.

Cheers, -- N
 

Oligopsony

Explorer
D&D is interesting in that it hardcodes the bourgeois narrative into its rules: the plucky young person goes out into the world, and through grit and calculated risk, grows and grows in power as if it were the natural sort of way a human being matures. The victims here are dehumanized, desubjectified, monstrous depictions of foreign cultures, &c. (When it isn't covered up in this way, the violence inherent in the system becomes apparent: remember that shock you felt, first seeing the XP value listed for "child?")

When the PCs aren't involved in simple piracy, the narrative defaults to the Jack Bauer one: the status quo is basically good but defenseless, and needs violent elites to shepherd it. (In which case power returns, again, as simply a natural reward of the heroes' efforts.) There are campaigns where this is partially reversed - "the status quo is bad" - but the implication is still that violent elite cadres are necessary to set things right, so the D&D rules make it Leninist at best. Exalted is probably Leninist by default in this sense, when it isn't being (very self-consiously) Nietzschean, Randian, fascistic, nihilistic, and so on.
 

eyebeams

Explorer
Sparta can't be communist because communism is predicated on workers controlling the means of production. In Sparta, they didn't.

Premodern society can't be called communist or capitalist because the assumptions of those systems didn't exist. The definition of property has changed between times and cultures. In a feudal society you might define it as the set of things that are possessed by someone who has no need to pass them on to satisfy obligations, which is pretty narrow, fluid -- and to a great many people who lived at that time, virtually nonexistent.
 

Nifft

Penguin Herder
eyebeams said:

eyebeams, your sig is really long and wide. I have to put you on my "ignore" list because you're making the thread wider than my browser window.

Please PM me if you get rid of your sig. :\

Sorry, -- N
 

Kwalish Kid

Explorer
Matthias Wasser said:
D&D is interesting in that it hardcodes the bourgeois narrative into its rules: the plucky young person goes out into the world, and through grit and calculated risk, grows and grows in power as if it were the natural sort of way a human being matures. The victims here are dehumanized, desubjectified, monstrous depictions of foreign cultures, &c. (When it isn't covered up in this way, the violence inherent in the system becomes apparent: remember that shock you felt, first seeing the XP value listed for "child?")

When the PCs aren't involved in simple piracy, the narrative defaults to the Jack Bauer one: the status quo is basically good but defenseless, and needs violent elites to shepherd it. (In which case power returns, again, as simply a natural reward of the heroes' efforts.) There are campaigns where this is partially reversed - "the status quo is bad" - but the implication is still that violent elite cadres are necessary to set things right, so the D&D rules make it Leninist at best. Exalted is probably Leninist by default in this sense, when it isn't being (very self-consiously) Nietzschean, Randian, fascistic, nihilistic, and so on.
Don't forget AD&D's rule that each GP provides XP, thus equating capital with personal growth and worth.

Honestly, there is so much going on under the surface in RPGs.
 


S'mon

Legend
The default D&D setting is a kind of Dawn of the Bourgeoisie thing, where Bourgeois materialist 'adventurer' PCs with a capitalist-individualist ethos gain wealth and power and often end up overthrowing the old feudal-aristocratic order. Obviously there's no space for 19th century ideas like Marxism in this 18th-century setting.

Economic Marxism and Communism barely exists in RPGs, except as the baddies in old WEG and GDW games (Paranoia, Price of Freedom, Twilight: 2000). White Wolf's WoD is heavily influenced by neo-Marxist postmodernist dialectic, as are other 'reality is an illusion' settings like Kult. The rise of Environmentalism has brought a little tangential neo-Marxism into the D&D universe via WotC, and certainly WotC-D&D is Politically Correct in a way TSR-D&D never was, but no communitarian socialism/communism.
 

Kwalish Kid

Explorer
Sarellion said:
So we are playing capitalist propaganda? ;)
Pretty much, yes. The games are part of the capitalist system. Game publishers that succeed are those who are able to best build a consumer culture for their product. Any game that seeks to resist the trend of the gaming industry can only succeed by adopting this strategy. Thus, on the one hand, the practice of buying the games is part of consumption in a capitalist setting. Perhaps more insidiously, game content will tend to be that which encourages or assists the consumer culture of the game player.

It won't be 100% this way, but the market forces should encourage these trends.

Anyway, that's the standard analysis.
 

The Cardinal

First Post
Kwalish Kid said:
Pretty much, yes. The games are part of the capitalist system. Game publishers that succeed are those who are able to best build a consumer culture for their product. Any game that seeks to resist the trend of the gaming industry can only succeed by adopting this strategy. Thus, on the one hand, the practice of buying the games is part of consumption in a capitalist setting. Perhaps more insidiously, game content will tend to be that which encourages or assists the consumer culture of the game player.

It won't be 100% this way, but the market forces should encourage these trends.

For examples see

- M:tG (CCG)
- WoW (MMORPG)

and the development of D&D 3.0, 3.5., 4.0...
 

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