Community designed martial controller

[chronoplasm]

I love the idea of giving the MC Alchemy as a free feat.
Int as a primary stat? Well, you do get to add your Int modifier to your AC when you are wearing cloth armor, and you do get to use Int for determining Reflex...

I have this idea for a class feature:

Vigilante's Grudge
Once per turn, as a minor action, you may place your Vigilante's Grudge on the nearest enemy that you can see.
Whenever an enemy with your Vigilante's Grudge on it starts its turn adjacent to you, it provokes an Opportunity Attack from you.

Along with that you could have powers like...

Guilt by Association Vigilante Attack 1
Encounter. Martial, Fear, Weapon
Standard-Action
Melee or Ranged Weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Int vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Int modifier damage and the target is pushed Charisma modifier squares. You may place a Grudge on each enemy the target lands adjacent to.

 

[Quickleaf]

Nice Chronoplasm! I was thinking along the same lines.

Also, I was trying to come up with period examples of a vigilante from media sources, sort of a medieval Batman or Shadow, and the closest I got was Grégoire de Fronsac from Brotherhood of the Wolf. What do you think?

Brainstorming a couple powers...

Torch Swing: Close burst 1, get pushed back or take 1d6 fire +1 ongoing fire (save ends)

Knife to the Throat: Use on grabbed target to maintain grab when forced to move and gain cover; any melee/ranged attack missing you hits target instead

Bleed True: Gain info on target's true identity with a hit

 

[chronoplasm]

Nice Chronoplasm! I was thinking along the same lines.

Also, I was trying to come up with period examples of a vigilante from media sources, sort of a medieval Batman or Shadow, and the closest I got was Grégoire de Fronsac from Brotherhood of the Wolf. What do you think?

Could work. We could also use The Scarlet Pimpernel for inspiration, and maybe Spring Heeled Jack for a more evil take on this class.

Brainstorming a couple powers...

Torch Swing: Close burst 1, get pushed back or take 1d6 fire +1 ongoing fire (save ends)

I don't think martial classes should be able to do elemental damage unless it's a property of the weapon they are using.

Bleed True: Gain info on target's true identity with a hit

I could see this more as a utility power.

So, here's some ideas:

A stance that lets you make a bull rush instead of a basic attack whenever you can make an OA.

Another stance that lets you make a grab attack instead of a basic attack whenever you can make an OA.

Nerve Pinch: stun a grabbed target.

Hornet's Sting: stun with a ranged attack.

Public Execution: deal huge damage to a bloodied target and place a grudge on each adjacent enemy.

Octopus Stretch: some kind of grappling exploit based on the signature move of Lucha Libre wrestler Demonio Azul. Make it a really cool daily.

 

[Ranuth]

My take on a martial controller would be a gadgeteer. Using caltrops, grenades, gas bombs, glue bombs etc to get the work done. Int based. Of course, this doesn't fit all settings.

The barbarian, as presented, is pretty controller-ish in that it gets additional attacks when it downs enemies. It would be possible to design a martial controller as a smash-everything-close rage fighter. Or even as a martial arts sweeping kick type fighter. Based on Str or Dex.

I also quite like the trickster/intimidating (two builds options of the same class I guess) idea, but find it a little implausible to do damage this way. Constantly using just repartee could get tedious. Obviously based on Cha.

I wonder if these ideas can be incorporated as different builds into one class? It seems very difficult to get these three aspects covered by one stat, so the resulting class would suffer heavily from MAD, but it would give us a very wide toolbox. This, in turn, would avoid the danger of the one-trick pony where you stretch credibility by pulling out a new gadget every turn.


Let me try and make a first sketch. Make the class Dex based, with four build options: Str (area combat), Int (gadgets), Cha (Intimdation) and Cha (trickery).

Well, I typed a whole writeup for a Trapper Type class, but timed out, and it got deleted.... basically it works like this.

Dexterity based, with Intelligence and Wisdom as suppliments.

You'll have two builds: Alchemist Trapper, and Tinkerer Trapper

Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Simple Melee, Simple ranged
Tools: Tinkerers Tools, Stirring Rod (Like Implements, but you only get the bonuses if you use the tools during your short and extended rests, and only for the next encounter/day.)

Features:

Trappers Cunning: +2 bonus to thievery checks to disarm traps, don't activate trap that you set unless you want to. Prey takes -2 to saves for effects caused by your trapper exploits. Some powers may grant additional benefits against your prey.

Alchemist Trapper: Add Int to Fort Defense. Add Int to damage rolls for rapper exploits with the 'Alchemy' keyword.
Tinkerer Trapper: Add Wisdom to Reflex Defense. Shift a number of squares equal to your wisdom modifier before or after laying a trap.

At-will attack power 1: Lure the prey
Ranged Weapon
1|W| damage Dex vs. AC attacks that pulls the target 1 square.

Encounter Attack power 1: Hail of Arrows
Ranged Weapon
2d8 Burst 1 within 5 vs. AC

Daily Attack Power (Trap): Viper's Venom Trap
Trap, Alchemy
Lay a trap that lasts till the end of the encounter and makes a Dex vs. Fort attack when activated, and deals 2d10 damage, 5 + INT ongoing damage (save ends) on a hit. Half damage on a miss. Creates a 3x3 zone that deals 5 + INT poison damage to anyone entering or starting their turn in the space.

 

[Alex319]

I have this idea for a class feature:

Vigilante's Grudge
Once per turn, as a minor action, you may place your Vigilante's Grudge on the nearest enemy that you can see.
Whenever an enemy with your Vigilante's Grudge on it starts its turn adjacent to you, it provokes an Opportunity Attack from you.

This seems too powerful as written. It basically means that the MC can put his grudge on a target adjacent to him, and the target has no way to avoid the OA because it is at the beginning of his turn (before he has a chance to move away.)

This would get worse if the MC can grudge lots of targets. It would basically become a Flaming Sphere-like effect centered on the MC that's always on (and only hurts enemies). And any effects that could force enemies to become adjacent to the MC (like forced movement) would make this even more powerful.

(In this way, this ability has a similar problem to the ability Blood Pulse from the PHB. Blood Pulse causes the target to take damage each time it moves. Its intended purpose is presumably to discourage the target from moving, acting as a controller like ability, but used properly it can be one of the most powerful damage dealing abilities in the game due to forced movement.)

 

[Starfox]

We are talking controller here; I think you are too modest and sliding into the Striker department with grudge. I think its ok to have a damage aura, but maybe it should be a power, perhaps even a daily power. But we want this guy to have area damage, and a damage aura would allow him to be more aggressive about it.

If the damage aura triggers when opponents move next to or start their turn next to him, it would also work as a limited defense. The vigilante can close with enemies, which triggers his aura, but then those enemies get to attack him "for free", having already taken damage on their turns. Or he can use it as an implied threat; attack me in melee at your peril!

Of course, it wouldn't work at range unless we wrote it that way at higher tiers, which seems a bt over the top. At higher tiers lots of creatures have reach.

 

[Quickleaf]

Could work. We could also use The Scarlet Pimpernel for inspiration, and maybe Spring Heeled Jack for a more evil take on this class.

Yeah, the Scarlet Pimpernel is reaching back to the roots.

A stance that lets you make a bull rush instead of a basic attack whenever you can make an OA.

I like it, but it seems marginally useful to a controller as you provoke AoO during move and still end up adjacent to enemy. Maybe I'm missing something...

Another stance that lets you make a grab attack instead of a basic attack whenever you can make an OA.

I like the idea of the MC benefiting from grabs moreso than other PCs, increasing risk of friendly fire hitting the one they've grabbed.

Public Execution: deal huge damage to a bloodied target and place a grudge on each adjacent enemy.

Nice.

Octopus Stretch: some kind of grappling exploit based on the signature move of Lucha Libre wrestler Demonio Azul. Make it a really cool daily.

Uh...I'm not up on my lucha libre, but "octopus stretch" sounds downright painful.

We are talking controller here; I think you are too modest and sliding into the Striker department with grudge. I think its ok to have a damage aura, but maybe it should be a power, perhaps even a daily power. But we want this guy to have area damage, and a damage aura would allow him to be more aggressive about it.

When thinking about the controller as the inverse of the leader, giving them an always active damage aura seems a bit powerful compared to the bard's song of rest or cleric/warlord's healing/inspiring word power. Maybe it could be one of those twice an encounter powers? Or a stance power?

Another thought...is there such a thing as temporary hit point damage? Might be more complex than its worth, but I was just thinking about an aura which reduces your max HP while within it, but you go back to normal outside of the aura.

As far as flavor goes, it could be a combination of demoralizing, advantageous positioning, careful footwork, feinting, sand kicked in the eyes, etc.

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

I started to work on a martial controller called a Master. He used "summons" (henchmen) and zones to control the battlefield. Here's what I have come up with thus far -

Master


"I let my henchmen do the dirtywork. Me? I sit back and watch."

Class Traits

Role: Controller. Your summoned, loyal minions dash in and out of combat, doing the fighting for you against multiple foes with zones while you stand back in safety and strike with precise ranged attacks.

Power Source: Martial. When the chips are down, you can easily work with the simplest of weapons to defend yourself, gaining the effects of Rattling powers.

Key Abilities: Charisma, Wisdom, Intelligence

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather, Hide, Chainmail
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, Simple ranged, One military ranged
Bonus to Defenses: +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st level: 10+Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 4
Healing Surges per Day: 6+Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Streetwise. From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class skills: Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Insight (Wis), Perception (Wis), History (Int), Nature (Wis), Religion (Int)
Build Options: Cunning Master, Brutal Master
Class Features: Woeful Tactics, Versatility

Masters excel at using others do the work for them. You may be a knight, who has a small retinue of loyal retainers armed to the teeth to protect you. Perhaps you are a backstreet guildmaster, with a clutch of footpads to dash and strike out at your foes. Maybe you fancy yourself a wiley nobleman, who's hired sellswords to protect himself. You may be a merchant, who's henchmen clear the way for you to do business town to town. Either way, you manage your "assets" in battle, keeping yourself and your allies safe from harm. Your powers are aimed at controlling your foes: slowing, stopping, or compelling their movement; weakening their attacks; or hedging them in zones of control from your minions. You summon street toughs, loyal retainers or henchmen to face your enemies, and you empower your allies with charismatic fervor.


Master Class Features

Woeful Tactics

Choose one of the following tactics suites. These tactics will determine where your focus is; either towards personal, ranged attacks or summoning powers:

Cunning Tactics
You gain one-half your Wisdom modifier as a bonus to all defenses whenever you take an action that provokes an opportunity attack (summoning focus/personal attacks)

Brutal Tactics
Once per encounter as a free action, you can designate one creature you have used a power that has an effect that lasts until they make a successful saving throw as a target of your brutal mastery. The target takes a penalty to their saving throw equal to your Charisma modifier. (Rattling keyword for personal attacks/summoning)

Wizard's summoning is coming out this Friday for a preview, so I am holding off from further design until I have a more solid feel for how WotC plans to handle summoning.

 

[chronoplasm]

The problem with classes with companions is that you have to be careful designing it or the companion will end up overshadowing the actual player character. I ran into this problem with my Dragonaut class.

However. if we do go with the pulp-hero flavor, we might consider giving the class some kind of optional 'sidekick' to help out.


...a power idea...

Intercept
Encounter. Martial, Weapon
Immediate Interrupt
Ranged 5
Trigger: An enemy in range shifts.
Effect: You can shift up to five squares as long as you land adjacent to the target, then you can make a basic attack against the target as a free action. If the attack hits, the target falls prone.

 

[Starfox]

Suspension of Disbelief will be a major obstacle to a project like this. The Master simply defies belief for me - how did your henchmen get into the n:th layer of the abyss or the cloud giant floating castle?

The same might go for others with stunts like intimidation actually inflicting damage or causing effects like a daze or knockback.

I've started working on a raw sketch for a Mastermind class with three build paths; interaction, tools, and brute strength, but is is very much in its infant stages still. I'll post links as I progress.