WotC Community update for Sept 22, 2023. Note Lost Mine of Phandelver will be unavailable to claim after Oct 6th

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Maybe so, hence what I said in my original post:
If they're gonna take this long to comb over an actual, finished SRD like 3.5, I feel like a CC stripped-down version of 4e, BX/OD&D, or AD&D/2e might as well be wholly off the table. Not a fan.
Honestly, though, if they pit out the 3E and/or 3.5 SRD in CC, then OSR style remixes of those other games are already good to go.
 

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Lupin

Explorer
Honestly, though, if they pit out the 3E and/or 3.5 SRD in CC, then OSR style remixes of those other games are already good to go.
Not gonna pretend I've read them through, but my rough understanding is that the 3/3.5 SRDs are far more "feature complete" and AD&D/2e-like than the SRD for 5th Edition is, so "reverse-engineered" retro-clones adapted from the 3.5 SRD would—theoretically, at least—be on more legally stable ground.

Though that doesn't really help with 4th Edition, which had both radically different design and never had the luxury of an open 3rd-party license.
 

dave2008

Legend
Regarding the timing of older editions (3E/3.5E) going CC.

Bob World Builder Interview (full version)

Starting at 18:18:
Bob: So let's say just to maybe, like, narrow down on this a little bit as well. You know 2024 - huge year for D&D. Um, is there any guess or, like, plan that by the time 6E comes out, is that when all these SRDs will be in Creative Commons, or do you think it'll be something that happens later down the line?
Kyle: I think it'll be, uh, in in-flight updates. So I think that as we you know we obviously have to publish rules first before we put them in the SRD. But you'll get to see some of the rules changes we're working on as we do the play tests for for One D&D, and so you'll have some idea of the rules changes that are coming up. And we expect the community will tell us, "hey you need to make sure this makes it into the SRD," just in case we're overlooking something.
Bob: Yeah.
Kyle: And then when the actual rule books are published, we'll follow that up with an SRD update.
Bob: Yeah I guess, uh, I-I also meant for those older editions.
Kyle: [spoken with a "for sure" tone] Oh yeah.
Bob: You think in Creative Commons—
Kyle: Yeah.
Bob: —by 2024 or end of 2024?
Kyle: Oh I think that'll happen this year. I mean, we just have to do our homework and do the review. It's, you know, there's no particular reason to delay it other than the work.
Bob: Okay.
---

Regarding other old editions going Creative Commons.

Nerd Immersion's interview

Starting @ 20:55:

Ted: To that point, just to touch on the previous SRDs, I know obviously one of the big ones that was out there was the 3rd Edition one. Is there plans to possibly go further back, or even touch on 4th possibly, if people are still looking to to do things like that?
Kyle: Yeah, I don't see why not. I mean, other than the work involved.
Ted: Sure.
Kyle: You know, it's all, like, got to look at it, figure out what's the perfect thing to put into an SRD, for editions that may not already be in SRDs, we'll have to create SRDs for them, which is a fairly, uh, extensive process. And some, honestly some of those old editions, wow, the files are... [laughs]
Ted: Yeah. Sure, I can imagine, yeah. [smiles]
Kyle: It might just be a logistical problem, it's not a strategic problem. Anything that would hold us up would be more logistical than strategic.
---

EDIT: So you're correct on the latter point about older editions being only considered—which I'll note is exactly what I said in my earlier reply—but he definitely did give an estimate of the 3/3.5 SRDs going CC sometime this year (and spoken with quite a bit of confidence, I might add). In any case, he is aware that there is interest in the older editions and seemed amenable to exploring it, assuming logistics aren't an issue.
I would say he had confidence they will do it and he thought it would get done this year. But is not like he promised that or gave a firm date. Of course, even if he did, I wouldn't hold him to that. It was not something that was in their plans until a week or two before this interview. They didn't really have any idea how to fit it into their schedule at that time.


Now, if that don't put the 3/3.5 SRD in CC that would be a betrayal of sorts IMO. But if it gets pushed into 2024, I wouldn't think that is a big deal. And like said before, I don't expect to see anything past that (though I would love all versions to be made available some how).

PS - Thank for digging up the interviews and doing the homework!
 




Nikosandros

Golden Procrastinator
Honestly, though, if they pit out the 3E and/or 3.5 SRD in CC, then OSR style remixes of those other games are already good to go.
Yes, the art of "extracting" old school rules from the 3.5 SRD has been perfected through the years. While I would love to see an AD&D/BD&D SRD, I'm not really expecting one.
 
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Lupin

Explorer
I would say he had confidence they will do it and he thought it would get done this year. But is not like he promised that or gave a firm date. Of course, even if he did, I wouldn't hold him to that. It was not something that was in their plans until a week or two before this interview. They didn't really have any idea how to fit it into their schedule at that time.


Now, if that don't put the 3/3.5 SRD in CC that would be a betrayal of sorts IMO. But if it gets pushed into 2024, I wouldn't think that is a big deal. And like said before, I don't expect to see anything past that (though I would love all versions to be made available some how).

PS - Thank for digging up the interviews and doing the homework!
I think the main point you brought up to begin with is that you thought non-3/3.5 SRDs were never "on the table," which means our whole back-and-forth has been over semantics (I guess it's natural, being an RPG forum and all ;)). Let me just say this: the older editions getting SRDs and going CC were clearly on the table as in "had been publicly discussed as candidates for consideration," but not on the table as in "guaranteed" or "promised" ("on the table" means "able to be negotiated or arranged by compromise").

My initial post is simply saying the delays in getting the already authored 3/3.5 SRDs into Creative Commons means the likelihood of ever potentially seeing any other vintage editions released into CC is looking to be threefold: slim chance, fat chance, and/or no chance. And I don't love that. That's all I was trying to say.

Thank you for debating in good faith. There's too much negativity out there, and I'm sure I'm not helping the situation any.

----
If or when WotC follows through on releasing the 3/3.5 SRD into CC with no or minimal cuts/changes, then I can rest a little easier knowing 3rd-party retro-D&D publications don't have to rely exclusively on the 5.1 SRD or the crusty old OGL. Knowing they're not at risk of getting sued by WotC, however unlikely that is, would be a big relief to everyone in the retro-clone 3PP niche, I'm sure.
(However, I saw a video of the short preview for Greg Gillespie's Dragonslayer—mainly a B/X-1E hybrid—and it cites only the Creative Commons 5.1 SRD. I'd think the notion that you'd arrive naturally at a clone of vintage BX/AD&D from 5e's text would be an uncomfortably long stretch, though...)

EDIT: My apologies if this whole discussion really belonged in the Publishing Business subforum; would making a new thread there for this have been the better approach? (I didn't expect it to spark a debate/discussion, though, honestly...my posts elsewhere online are generally just ignored for being insufficiently incendiary or hyperbolic.)
 
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