D&D 5E Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part XV: The FINAL ROUND)

Clint_L

Hero
Tagging in, the final list is suprising in many aspects, this is going to be an interesting competition so I’m keen to see the debate…
Surprising in the sense that most of those sub-classes are lame? I saw the list and assumed that was the point; that people were taking the piss.
 

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Aldarc

Legend
Yep. Not saying they can't be fun if that is what you like to play, I just think there are other subclasses better representative of clerics and it bothered me that Tempest won because the vote wasn't done correctly, which is why I have been tracking all the other survivor threads ever since--to keep the numbers accurate and ensure the correct subclass actually wins.
If what was most representative subclass should win, then over half the subclasses in the finals should be there.
 


Vaalingrade

Legend
Surprising in the sense that most of those sub-classes are lame? I saw the list and assumed that was the point; that people were taking the piss.
I think it's less snark and more the nature of how this works: every outlier, no matter the quality is deleted instantly, then anything that is a threat to personal favorites, which means they're other peoples' personal favorites, so those get wiped out. So at the end, it's the most middle of the road choices left in the finals.

Notice how the classes where good options won are classes with just strong all around design like the Rogue or Bard, or ones where there was always a Single Obvious Choice, like Fighter or Artificer. Anything with a spread ended up with something wonky in the final slot.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
Folks on ENWorld: "We demand psionics in 5E!"
WotC: does literally anything involving psionics
Folks on ENWorld: "Augh! No, not like that!"

The poor Mystic. It was a solid class, and the best attempt at adding psionics to 5E that we ever got to see (and will likely ever see again.) Alas, it never got a fair shake...the word "psionics" means too many different things to too many different people, so there can never be a satisfied majority on how it should be implemented.

Regarding psionics, most agree that it would be nice to have...but that's the only thing most will agree on.
 
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Shadowdweller00

Adventurer
Cleric's my second after Wizard because the 5e Cleric is utterly boring.
Little curious as to why you think this? The 5e cleric has more unique abilities than almost any other previous edition afaict (prolly not more than 4e because of how 4e was structured). Not that that guarantees non-boringness or anything, but...
 


CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
Sounds to me like a lot of people are downvoting classes because they're butthurt that their particular favorite subclass didn't win in that category. Which I guess is pretty typical.
That'll be the second wave of downvoting.

The first wave will be people eliminating things that they believe "don't belong in D&D," like psions, artificers, and anything from Unearthed Arcana. Now that they Mystic is gone, I expect a dogpile on the Artificer and maybe the Monk (although the Monk has become more acceptable nowadays than it was back in the 3.X days.)

But then after those are gone? Yeah, the butthurt will be the main driver. "The College of Lore was the inferior choice and I'll prove it!"
 
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CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
I’m downvoting fighter because I said I would after the fighter survivor thread, and I’m a gal of my word. 😁
Me looking at the bard like
claws GIF
 


DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
I’m downvoting fighter because I said I would after the fighter survivor thread, and I’m a gal of my word. 😁
Yeah, the butthurt will be the main driver. "The College of Lore was the inferior choice and I'll prove it!"
I’m definitely tempted to downvote Warlock and Wizard because I’m still salty about hexblade and bladesinger, yes.
I am expecting A LOT of "revenge voting" in this...
 
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Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
I have to admit, I'm a bit sad to hear all this :( can't we just vote for what we like, and downvote what we think is least deserving of winning?
 

I have to admit, I'm a bit sad to hear all this :( can't we just vote for what we like, and downvote what we think is least deserving of winning?
I cannot comply with this request. None of the subclasses I wanted to win actually won. Not a single one. I am literally incapable of voting for voting for something I truly like, and believe all of these are "least deserving of winning."

Hence, I will vote down those classes that I think have the worst design, and vote up those classes I can at least minimally tolerate. My primary focus for downvotes is Fighter at present; after that, most likely Wizard, unless Cleric is too far ahead.
 

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
I have to admit, I'm a bit sad to hear all this :( can't we just vote for what we like, and downvote what we think is least deserving of winning?
It is unfortunate, but for myself, also downvoting tempest cleric is because I don't think it is deserving of winning, even if it hadn't won one a technicality. 🤷‍♂️
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
On the list, there are 4 of my favorites (Tempest Domain for the cleric, Oath of the Ancients for the paladin, Thief for the rogue, and School of Abjuration for the wizard), so they are going to be my "darlings" in the final round. And only 2 are my absolute least favorite (the Battle Smith artificer, and all bards as a whole), so those are the ones I'm going to be pushing down.

Once these are all eliminated, I have no idea how I'll vote. I'll probably end up favoring the ones I've actually played (7 in total), and downvoting the ones I have no interest in playing (4), assuming any of them outlast the ones I've already mentioned.

It's anybody's game, really. Like @Vaalingrade said, this Survivor game tends to eliminate the outliers first--both the good and the bad--and leave the lukewarm, mediocre options untouched. Whether or not one of my Darlings makes it to the final round will depend on enough people agreeing with me...but hopefully not too many.
But my money is on the Paladin.
 
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Nature of the beast, I'd guess. If you want something like that you might do better with a simple, single-time vote class poll.
It's specifically because tearing things down is more effective than building them up. It encourages both blandness in the resulting winners and viewing things as "how can I take down what I dislike most" rather than "how can I support what I like most."

Hence why I favor a "footrace" model instead, with a +2/-1 setup, and a "finish line" value (e.g. first to 100 points.) That allows for underdogs and dark horse victories, and rewards positive appraisal rather than negative.
 

Looks like Fighter is shaping up to be the most controversial class this time around. It has had 7 downvotes and 10 upvotes, out of only 76 votes. Other than the Mystic, it's had the most attention of any class on the board, with over 22% of all votes (regardless of direction) going to it. Given Mystic has to have eaten more than a third of all votes all by itself (25 downvotes + a few upvotes + however many downvotes were needed to cancel those out), to snap up 22% of the total is no mean feat, making it more than a third of all non-Mystic votes.
 


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