TwoSix
Unserious gamer
Noble in theory, but revenge is so much sweeter in practice.I have to admit, I'm a bit sad to hear all thiscan't we just vote for what we like, and downvote what we think is least deserving of winning?
D&D 5E Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part XV: The FINAL ROUND)
- Thread starter Undrave
- Start date
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Yeah, the 50 points is sort of making this more tedious instead of fun IME...
Undrave
Hero
It just doesn't feel like an interesting support class while playing it. You fire off your Bless or Shield of Faith or whatever and then you just waste you time doing pitiful damage for the rest of the fight while maintaining your Concentration. There's no real engagement in the fight, you might need to throw a healing words or something but that's about it.
The best pick for Spells at early level are so blindingly obvious that you always end up with the 80% same spell list. The PHB only has ONE attack Cantrip (Toll the Dead should have been in the PHB for both Cleric and Bard) so if you want to be a spellcaster, I hope you like Sacred Flame (I don't)!
And the Cleric rituals suck.
Right? My opinion on the finalists runs from "meh" to "seriously??"
Half full glass: with a 50 point start this will go on forever which is one less thread for weeks to distract me as I'm getting ready (read: already late) for work every morning.
Aldarc
Legend
I'm trying to whittle down the Abjuration wizard, but your upvoting isn't helping anything!
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Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
Yeah, well Im not gonna vote for a couple of days - so go for it!
Aldarc
Legend
You could always concentrate on killing the Abjuration Wizard.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Or the Ancients Paladin.You could always concentrate on killing the Abjuration Wizard.
Aldarc
Legend
Nah. It's good.Or the Ancients Paladin.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Is it though... is it???
Aldarc
Legend
You mean the Abjuration Wizard? Yeah, no idea why anyone would upvote Wizards.
Shadowdweller00
Adventurer
The Abjuration Wizard isn't my personal favorite Wizard subclass; but it's still a Wizard (the bestest class ) and there are some interesting tricks one can pull off with it. I know a number of people who swear by it. Preventing damage to another PC feels pretty awesome to me personally. (When performed in play)
The Oath of Ancients paladin...oy. Just, oy. Reasonably fun to play, adds good spells. HOWEVER, Nature's Wrath is a newbie-trap level ability: Not a bad effect, but not worth a full action IMO. Particularly when the subclass already gets Ensnaring Strike. I think Aura of Warding (half damage from all spells to all allies within 10 feet) is problematic, when coupled with base paladin Aura of Protection (charisma bonus to all saves). It's a headache as a DM and, since it indirectly limits the type of challenges the party faces, not something I really want to see as a fellow player either. There are SOME ways around it (such as using vastly more powerful enemy casters than one otherwise would)...but these introduce new problems. Other classes sometimes possess vaguely comparable defenses; but never multitarget, always on, resource and action-free abilities.
Plus Paladin as a class seems in my experience, ironically, to attract more than its share of players or characters who feel entitled to bully other PCs. Something about how its written.
) and there are some interesting tricks one can pull off with it. I know a number of people who swear by it. Preventing damage to another PC feels pretty awesome to me personally. (When performed in play)The Oath of Ancients paladin...oy. Just, oy. Reasonably fun to play, adds good spells. HOWEVER, Nature's Wrath is a newbie-trap level ability: Not a bad effect, but not worth a full action IMO. Particularly when the subclass already gets Ensnaring Strike. I think Aura of Warding (half damage from all spells to all allies within 10 feet) is problematic, when coupled with base paladin Aura of Protection (charisma bonus to all saves). It's a headache as a DM and, since it indirectly limits the type of challenges the party faces, not something I really want to see as a fellow player either. There are SOME ways around it (such as using vastly more powerful enemy casters than one otherwise would)...but these introduce new problems. Other classes sometimes possess vaguely comparable defenses; but never multitarget, always on, resource and action-free abilities.
Plus Paladin as a class seems in my experience, ironically, to attract more than its share of players or characters who feel entitled to bully other PCs. Something about how its written.
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CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing
I'm glad I didn't go with 100 points each (I had seriously considered it.) But even with 50 starting points, the first elimination took less than 30 hours. On a major US holiday, no less.
Not sure what to say about the upvoting habits, though. If I had to rank the surviving subclasses in order of Most Interesting to the Least Interesting, it would look something like this:
Tempest Domain: because storm gods are best gods
School of Abjuration: the best offense is a good defense
Pact of the Fiend: more flavor and lore in its little finger than everything below combined
Oath of Ancients: the best "spell sword," the best "ranger," and the best "eldritch knight," rolled into one.
Thief: it's the best non-magic subclass so far. That's about all I can say about it, though.
Circle of the Shepherd: eh, kinda boring, but at least you get fun pets.
Divine Soul: so you want to play a cleric but you don't want to be the cleric? Weird flex but okay.
Gloom Stalker: you chose this over an actual rogue?
Battle Master: you could have played an Eldritch Knight but chose Extra Dice instead. Hooray?
Way of the Kensei: I mean, at least it's not YAFRMC (Yet Another Fighter/Rogue MultiClass).
Path of the Totem Warrior: it's not terrible, just feels really fiddly and watered-down.
College of Lore: If I were going to play a bard (I'm not), I wouldn't pick the magical librarian.
School of Abjuration: the best offense is a good defense
Pact of the Fiend: more flavor and lore in its little finger than everything below combined
Oath of Ancients: the best "spell sword," the best "ranger," and the best "eldritch knight," rolled into one.
Thief: it's the best non-magic subclass so far. That's about all I can say about it, though.
Circle of the Shepherd: eh, kinda boring, but at least you get fun pets.
Divine Soul: so you want to play a cleric but you don't want to be the cleric? Weird flex but okay.
Gloom Stalker: you chose this over an actual rogue?
Battle Master: you could have played an Eldritch Knight but chose Extra Dice instead. Hooray?
Way of the Kensei: I mean, at least it's not YAFRMC (Yet Another Fighter/Rogue MultiClass).
Path of the Totem Warrior: it's not terrible, just feels really fiddly and watered-down.
College of Lore: If I were going to play a bard (I'm not), I wouldn't pick the magical librarian.
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Gradine
Final Form (she/they)
See, this list matches my expectations to a tee; some archetypes you hate, some you love, and snoozy lil Thief smack dab in the middle.
EzekielRaiden
Legend
I think, with this larger pool of points, positive feelings will start to take on greater importance. With only 20 points, it takes 4-5 people deciding they dislike something for it to go from "doing really well" to "the new weakest link." And as soon as that weakness shows, dogpiles start. It happened to the Circle of Stars and the Circle of Wildfire, it happened to Hexblade, etc.
When it takes 12 back-to-back downvotes for a similar effect to occur, things are blunted severely. Sudden, dramatic weakness doesn't really happen; it takes days, perhaps even a week for something to fall that far. There's more than enough time for a rebound reaction to slow things down even further--which dissuades sudden, precipitous falls. Even with one of the options being outright openly hated by most voters, it still took more than a full day--in other words, three rounds of voting--for the first thing to be voted off, and another couple days (mid-Sunday) for the other "everyone hates it" option to disappear. Other than the two obvious unfavorites, we're still at least another day, possibly two, away from eliminating anything.
At this point, we're 228 votes in (out of an absolute maximum of ~700, depending on how many "wasted" votes occur when options are eliminated.) We've only eliminated two, and only gotten close to eliminating another two.
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Aldarc
Legend
IME, wizard as a class in my experience attracts more than its share of players or characters who feel like they are entitled to be the best class or gods who lord over other players and dominate play at the table through their magic.The Abjuration Wizard isn't my personal favorite Wizard subclass; but it's still a Wizard (the bestest class
Plus Paladin as a class seems in my experience, ironically, to attract more than its share of players or characters who feel entitled to bully other PCs. Something about how its written.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
That is some pretty crappy experiences then.IME, wizard as a class in my experience attracts more than its share of players or characters who feel like they are entitled to be the best class or gods who lord over other players and dominate play at the table through their magic.
IME they are nothing like that.Similar Threads
