D&D 3E/3.5 Comparison to 3.5e

[Ancalagon]

I read it just fine. Like I said, the DM can take care of range penalties, firing-into-melee penalties, and cover penalties. These are not things you as a player have to track yourself. All you have to know, is your attack bonus, and thats it. If you're shooting outside your weapon's range, tell the DM and let him take care of it.

Range penalties only occur if you have to shoot outside the range increment of your ranged weapon.

For a throwing axe this is 10ft.
For a Dart, light hammer or a spear this is 20 ft.
For a sling or hand crossbow, this is 30 ft.
For a shortbow or javelin this is 60 ft.
For a light crossbow, this is 80 ft.
For a heavy crossbow this is 120 ft.

So I think its fair to say that most ranged weapons in 3.5 are anywhere between 30 ft. and 80 ft. That is a long distance. In any given dungeon, I rarely see fights where you have to cover more than 30 ft. of range. Also, if you have to bring a ranged weapon in 3.5, you'll usually bring some kind of bow. Almost all of these have a range of over 60ft., which is more than you need for most fights in 3.5.

I'm currently running a pirate campaign that adds flintlock firearms into the mix. Most basic flintlocks in my campaign have an accurate range of about 50ft., and yet still the range increment rule barely comes up. And that is in a campaign where most opponents have firearms.

Our GM is pretty busy running the game, so if we can do a bit of the work for him, that's great.

I'm an alchemist, so my range is 20 feet. We are doing the kingmaker campaign, so most battles are outside, not in the narrow confines of a dungeon.

I'm astounded that a nautical campaign has such close ranges however. Line of sight on the sea, from top of the mast, is 14 miles. Does no one open fire before ships are ramming each other?

 

[Imaculata]

I'm astounded that a nautical campaign has such close ranges however. Line of sight on the sea, from top of the mast, is 14 miles. Does no one open fire before ships are ramming each other?

Siege Weapons can open fire before the ships are close, but ships maneuvre in ways to limit this. Rifles can be used to take shots at the other ships, but the enemy crew is smart enough to take cover in time. Firearms from that era are pretty inaccurate, and 3.5 naval combat has a strong focus on bringing naval battles to a boarding action as fast as possible. This is why the range of a lot of these firearms is pretty poor.

 

[Ancalagon]

Siege Weapons can open fire before the ships are close, but ships maneuvre in ways to limit this. Rifles can be used to take shots at the other ships, but the enemy crew is smart enough to take cover in time. Firearms from that era are pretty inaccurate, and 3.5 naval combat has a strong focus on bringing naval battles to a boarding action as fast as possible. This is why the range of a lot of these firearms is pretty poor.

We are getting off topic here, but I am intrigued.

What "tech level" are you using for your ships? What era of sailing are you trying to duplicate?
How do spells come into this?

 

[Imaculata]

We are getting off topic here, but I am intrigued.

What "tech level" are you using for your ships? What era of sailing are you trying to duplicate?
How do spells come into this?

I emulate a tech level of around the 16th/17th century; The age of sail. My campaign is a mix of normal D&D swords & sorcery, but with firearms, flamethrowers, airships and even primitive gramophones and early film. Not all nations in our setting make the step towards firearms at the same time. Some choose to focus on magic instead, and combine this with early weapons (such as catapults and ballistas) to terrorise the seas. The tech level varies wildly from nation to nation.

Because magic is a reality in this setting, all ships see the need to have a dedicated mage on board to defend themselves from magic at sea. Magic can be used to set ships on fire, or to change the weather. Magical projectiles can be used to launch undead onto a ship, or to raise the dead onboard a ship and turn their own dead crew against them. I even have a tribe of necromancer pirates, who are feared by all. Magic can also be used to imbue ammo with spells, wether that ammo is arrows, bolts, bullets or canonballs.

 

[Ancalagon]

SO! The Pathfinder game has switched (2 gms that alertnate) and we are now playing Zeitgeist.

I'm playing a level 9 Magus. His normal attack is +14/+9 (+6 BAB, + 5 dex (finess weapon), +3 (magical sword), for a damage of 1d6+8. In 5e this damage would be decent, but by pathfinder standards this is pretty low.

We were ambushed (not a spoiler - you get ambushed in Zeitgeist all the time lol). My Magus spent round 1 casting daylight and powering up, so not too complicated there. But here is his second round ( when enemies foolishly surrounded him)... things got complicated.

Thankfully, this is a party with less buffing than the previous one, and range, cover consideration are not a concern for this character.

Free action, activate boots of speed, I am now hasted (+1 to attack). The previous round he spent a swift action activating his sword with his arcane pool, it is now +1 to hit/damage, keen and 1d6 cold damage. As a free action, his black blade also activated, giving him another +3 to damage. However I am using spell combat, giving me -2 to hit The new numbers are +14/+9 and 1d6+12+1d6 (keen)

What spell am I using? Frostbite, for another 1d6+9 points of damage. Ok I'm doing a ton of damage, so what?

weeeeelllll..... See Frostbite is also a debuffing spell. it does fatigue (- 2 dex, -2 strenght, no run or charge). And I have magical lineage and Rime Spell, so the foe now is entangled: half speed, no run or charge, - 2 to attack, - 4 dex and needs oncentration to cast. AND I have enforcer and bruising intellect so I'm also doing an intimidate check. Given my +16 intimidate check, almost every foe hit is now shaken, a further -2 to attack, saves, skill and ability checks.

And let's not get started on the very likely critical hit. Or that I'm attacking 4 times a round....

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

I had fun as a player in the two 5E campaigns I've been in, but neither was close to being a standard kind of game setting, and both seemed to be far FAR too easy. Once out of the lowest levels there were VERY few times I felt our party was under any real kind of threat, until (as was admitted by both DM's) we were thrown against WILDLY overpowered opponents compared to what the game suggested we SHOULD have been facing.

I can't tell if that was actually a 5E problem or a DM problem. Again, I had fun but it wasn't providing much of the D&D experience I was HOPING for. I'd rather play an E6 version of 3E. I'd stick with my traditional 1E game but it now has more house rules than I can stomach, yet find it outrageously hard to cut back on the house rules for that any further than I have already.

 

[glass]

Natural Healing: The use of Hit Dice, clearly derived from 4e's Healing Surges, is great for natural healing and overall resilience.

By "derived from" do you mean "ran screaming away from"? Because otherwise, not so much.

Healing surges do two things. They make hp recovery roughly proportinal to total hp, and the provide a semi-hard daily limit on hp recovery. 5e HD have nothing to do with the former. And being extra healing, they are literally the opposite of the latter.

Honestly, I blame the name. "Healing surge" certainly sounds like it something akin to HD, until you actually read the rules associated with it. If only WotC had picked something better when they were developing 4e.

_
glass.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

By "derived from" do you mean "ran screaming away from"? Because otherwise, not so much.

Healing surges do two things. They make hp recovery roughly proportinal to total hp, and the provide a semi-hard daily limit on hp recovery. 5e HD have nothing to do with the former. And being extra healing, they are literally the opposite of the latter.

You've forgotten the third, and (IMO) most important thing that healing surges do: they force a narrative hard cap on the severity of HP damage. They mandate that HP damage inflicted by any sword or spell must be no more severe than what can be recovered naturally over the course of 5 minutes rest; which has the further effect of requiring that any other source of healing be equally unimpressive.

And in that aspect, 5E is functionally identical to 4E.

 

[Ancalagon]

You've forgotten the third, and (IMO) most important thing that healing surges do: they force a narrative hard cap on the severity of HP damage. They mandate that HP damage inflicted by any sword or spell must be no more severe than what can be recovered naturally over the course of 5 minutes rest; which has the further effect of requiring that any other source of healing be equally unimpressive.

And in that aspect, 5E is functionally identical to 4E.

I feel like you are onto something important, but I'm not quite following your argument. how does the healing surges (or hit dice?? is that the link you were trying to say?) impose a limit on the damage taken?

 

[glass]

I feel like you are onto something important, but I'm not quite following your argument. how does the healing surges (or hit dice?? is that the link you were trying to say?) impose a limit on the damage taken?

I think they are trying to say that they reinforce that hit points are not meat points. Which is kinda true (although it is more the short rests that do that, rather than the healing surges or hit dice themselves), but given the everyting else cementing that going all the way back to OD&D (including direct statements in every single edition) I do not consider it particularly significant.

_
glass.