compatibility

[Spell]

Hello.
Just a quick question here. does anyone knows how much the 4th edition will be backward compatible with the previous editions?

it seems that 4e will be somewhat rule lighter than 3.x... is it just my impression?

will we be allowed to run adventures and settings from even older editions (2e, 1e, OD&D) more or less off the book, without much conversion, as you can do if you use castles & crusades, or hackmaster, or there will be some work to do?

this would be ineteresting not only to know how much can i delve in my library (and into used bookshops... oooh, i can't believe how much you can save!!!), but also to import those changes i like into my game, should i stick to C&C and hackmaster...

thanks a lot!

ps: this is NOT meant to start a flame war. if you think that [insert your edition here] is the best, good for you. feel free to keep your opinion on the subject for yourself!

 

[Shieldhaven]

I really only foresee one significant challenge, and it's one you'd have to get around anyway. 4e does have some different assumptions about how much pain (i.e., how many opponents) the party can take at a time, and that amount varies in certain odd ways. You'll have to be ready to rejigger encounters to recognize and include minion, normal, elite, and boss-quality opponents.

I think that if you find it easy to convert adventures from older editions for use with Hackmaster or C&C, you're a sufficiently agile reworker that 4e will be just as easy.

Haven

 

[Plane Sailing]

It seems apparent that the farther your characters have moved from the 'Core', the more difficult it will be to move them over.

Even for core 3e characters, there will be dramatic changes in their capabilities, whether fighters, wizards or anything in between.

WotC comments on the subject have said that you will probably have to "re-imagine" your character in the new ruleset - i.e. create something which follows the core concept of your PC, if not the precise details.

I very much doubt that you'll be able to run 1e/2e adventures straight off the page without conversion, but I'm guessing that conversion will be less traumatic than converting those modules to 3e was!). C&C and Hackmaster will always be an easy conversion for them because it was one of their conscious design goals AFAIK.

Cheers

 

[Pinotage]

I think it's fair to say that there is nothing that's left unchanged. Looking at what we know so far, they've changed pretty much every aspect of the game in some way, from the bonuses provided by ability scores to the spellcasting system. Basically, if you want to use older material, you're going to have to convert everything. Having said that, some things will naturally be easier to convert than others.

Pinotage

 

[Aus_Snow]

They're not going for 3.9, that's for sure. It's a way-overhaul. Overmontyhaul? Well, take your pick.

If you want to be able to use older material (pre-3e) then yeah, try C&C or just AD&D, or something.

If you want to easily use 3e material, I'd stick with 3e (for that) IMO.

That said, I'm a crazy convertin' fool, and no edition ever stopped me. So, whatever works.

 

[Spell]

mmmh...
it then seems that i might run a modified C&C game set in old campaign settings, and use D&D4e to run campaigns in Dark Sun. some modifications will be needed, probably, but as other have pointed out, that setting seem to fit the idea of "point of lights" perfectly.

i might also try an homebrew. now, i just need to win several lotteries, so i can stop worrying about rent and just concentrate on my hobbies...

 

[TerraDave]

I think many of us have that problem...

Back to conversion:

4th ed is supposed to be "simpler". Its supposed to have a flatter power curve and more room for error in terms of putting PCs against opponents of the wrong level.

So, you take an old module, you take the 4thed monster manual, and when you get to an encounter, use the monster from there, with the 4th ed stats and rules....You would need to go through it once to at least get an averge level so you are in the ballpark.

Some issues:

Non-4th ed monsters: this you have to wing, but Necro has promised a 4th ed Tome of Horrors, and we should get a new official MM just about every year. So many should be covered.

NPCs: The DMG should have samples, and these are, again, supposed to be simpler. So a quick replacement might be used.

Skills: Smaller list, again simple, so you should be able to wing these, and DCs, as needed

Terrain: supposed to be more important. Again, look at the DMG, then wing it, maybe throwing some "interactive" terrain in advane where appropriate in the module.

Treasure: OK, this is a problem. Might require systemic rescaling and replacement...but you know what I think....thats right...wing it.

Thinking about this, and all that winging it, it would both be a good way to test 4th ed to see if it lives up to its promises, and put a 1st edition feel into your game.

 

[Voss]

Compatibility? Not really. Word from the devs has largely been 'don't bother' or 'rebuild the concept from the ground up'. Check the first couple 'castle smoulderthorn' playtest reports.

Of course, Scott Rouse has said that it isn't as big a change as 2e->3e, so maybe they've changed their minds about that.

As for box set, 1e or 2e modules... 'alllowed' isn't really the right word. Able to use them out of the book? not a chance. The number of stats that are just missing, nonexistant or irrelevant is very, very high. Balance is all over the place too, even now. Things that were a threat in 1e aren't any more, even now, and that will change in 4e is as well.

Plus there is the treasure issue. I've got the Secret of Bone Hill, The Temple of Elemental Evil and the Haunted Halls of Evening Star on my desk right now. (I'm stealing the town maps, and restructuring them for my own setting). The amount of treasure in Hommlet alone (before you even get to the Moathouse, let alone the Temple), is upwards of 60,000 gp. Most of it easily accessible to even mildly creative PCs.

I'm converting some places for my own use out of these modules, but monsters and NPCs just won't work as is. You could probably use the 4e MM entries for some monsters just fine, but others will be elsewhere on the power scale (Azer come to mind as an example. They're moving from a 3rd to 4th level monster to 13-14)
And for NPCs you'll have to work out powers, skills and etc pretty much from scratch.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Fluff however should be generaly convertable without huge problems...

 

[Mistwell]

It will be backwards compatible, if you are willing to work really hard at it.