D&D General 50 Years. The Least Popular Class Is......

Vaalingrade

Legend
IME the biggest headache for Illusionists are mindless undead - if there's no mind, there's nothing to trick.
Mindless undead seem to have just been there to make the cleric feel like the belong on the team. The rogue and bard have to sit on the sidelines while the wizard politely chooses not to solve the problem and let Timmy believe they're riding their big boy bike without the training wheels for the first time.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Zardnaar

Legend
Started with Core since 3.5 decided to bring the greatest sins of Masters of the Wild and Tome and Blood right to the PH.

Like, you've met Natural Spell and the Wizard class's... just... just all of it, yes?

Natural spell is the big one. Wizards at levels people actually play at not so much.
 

How many books were you using?
I had a DM that only let us use Core, the Spell Compendium, and one book of our choice. Aberration Wildshape + Enhance Wildshape + Natural Spell was sick. I had the Wild full plate and Wild tower shield and could turn into an always invisible wil-o'-wisp that had spell immunity, fly speed of 90', full spell casting, and an AC of over 30. I don't remember all of the details but i think this was by level 9.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
I had a DM that only let us use Core, the Spell Compendium, and one book of our choice. Aberration Wildshape + Enhance Wildshape + Natural Spell was sick. I had the Wild full plate and Wild tower shield and could turn into an always invisible wil-o'-wisp that had spell immunity, fly speed of 90', full spell casting, and an AC of over 30. I don't remember all of the details but i think this was by level 9.

Druid was bonkers. The Druid was also the least popular Class.

Wizard wasn't to bad most levels outside a few prestige classes and even then mostly hypothetical higher level stuff.

UA mostly fixed the Druid leaving higher level shenanigans.
 

CreamCloud0

One day, I hope to actually play DnD.
I can't speak about the 4e one, but I think making the bard a full caster was a mistake.
5E bards a great class but poor bard.

It's more like the 3.5 beguiler on steroids than a traditional bard.
IMO They should’ve been a halfcaster with much more emphasis on magical secrets, to really play up that versatile jack of all trades role.
 

cranberry

Adventurer
I liked the Illusionist in 1E when it was a separate and distinct class with many of it's own spells, rather than as a subclass of wizard.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
I was reading an old Dragon or Dungeon magazine and they mention this Class being the least popular.

It may not be the literal least popular Class of all time but I am referring to a Class that saw wide release across multiple editions. Not one limited to a single edition or obscure splat book or dragon magazine.

In 30 years I have seen this Class 3 times iirc. Maybe 4. Rarely used even as an NPC.

Once in Castles and Crusades
Once in 3.0 (with shadow adept in 2002)
Once in 2E (maybe once more in 1E or 2E).

The Class? The poor neglected Illusionist. It's probably more popular than some other wizard subclasses pre 5E at least but they were excluded from pre 1989 D&D and 4E so somewhat understandable.

I have my suspicions why. Main reason you need a creative player and co operating DM. And post 1989 they lost niche protection with critical spells eg chromatic orb, greater invisibility, phantasmal killer or hypnotic pattern. There's also a fine line between creative and hogging the spotlight and arguing over subjective interpretations and what a spell can do vs 10d6 psychic damage.

I might see another one in soon in C&C. The class seems to be an occasional one in pre 3E and OSR games usually a gnome. At least in 1E and C&C they have exclusive spells and the 2024 one looks good.
Kind of agree. Illusionist falls into one of two problematic bins ime. Either it needs a cooperating gm and ultimately kinda feels like cheating when it works in ways other than a job for Aquaman.... Or on the other side of the coin there is a cooperating GM and other classes are cooler because you have a cooperating gm plus some other class with a more useful tool belt of cool thematic fluff and cool mechanical abilities that avoid the "feels like cheating" almost always applicable illusionist pitfall by leaning on the two combined when cooperating with the gm.
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
Different playstyle. It's like playing a clone with modern mechanics vs THAC0.
I personally would not have used that comparison, because of how fundamentally confusing and poorly-handled THAC0 was.

The engine is fine it's what's built around it.
Fundamentally, I disagree.

Most of the broken 3.5 stuff was theoretical higher level builds.
Not at all. Druid + Natural Spell is PHB, achievable at level 6. Plenty of what you can do in 3.5e that is stupidly broken is PHB or early supplements and comes online within the first 10 levels. Nightstick abuse, for example, ain't hard to achieve and uses a book from 2004, literally almost immediately after 3.5e launched.

At a casual level 3.5 is fine (would even say better).
Again, I disagree. It can be fine if everyone in the group is specifically on board with a very particular playstyle and actively avoids certain kinds of things. You basically have to intentionally ignore what the rules actually are, and actively work to play purely with the incentives and playstyles of 2nd edition. Which, you might be surprised to hear, is exactly what the 3e designers did. They presumed people would choose to continue playing exactly the way they did in 2e, and thus tried to make a system that would be rewarding. That's why Clerics are so powerful, because it was expected that they would be Brother Bactine more than half the time, and thus the power would be mitigated by choosing not to use it.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
I personally would not have used that comparison, because of how fundamentally confusing and poorly-handled THAC0 was.


Fundamentally, I disagree.


Not at all. Druid + Natural Spell is PHB, achievable at level 6. Plenty of what you can do in 3.5e that is stupidly broken is PHB or early supplements and comes online within the first 10 levels. Nightstick abuse, for example, ain't hard to achieve and uses a book from 2004, literally almost immediately after 3.5e launched.


Again, I disagree. It can be fine if everyone in the group is specifically on board with a very particular playstyle and actively avoids certain kinds of things. You basically have to intentionally ignore what the rules actually are, and actively work to play purely with the incentives and playstyles of 2nd edition. Which, you might be surprised to hear, is exactly what the 3e designers did. They presumed people would choose to continue playing exactly the way they did in 2e, and thus tried to make a system that would be rewarding. That's why Clerics are so powerful, because it was expected that they would be Brother Bactine more than half the time, and thus the power would be mitigated by choosing not to use it.

Druids the big one.

Never saw nightsticks used in a real gane. They're kinda buried and not that obvious to use.

You need access to that book probably a prestige class, be higher level and have the knowledge to abuse it.
 
Last edited:

Zardnaar

Legend
I personally would not have used that comparison, because of how fundamentally confusing and poorly-handled THAC0 was.


Fundamentally, I disagree.


Not at all. Druid + Natural Spell is PHB, achievable at level 6. Plenty of what you can do in 3.5e that is stupidly broken is PHB or early supplements and comes online within the first 10 levels. Nightstick abuse, for example, ain't hard to achieve and uses a book from 2004, literally almost immediately after 3.5e launched.


Again, I disagree. It can be fine if everyone in the group is specifically on board with a very particular playstyle and actively avoids certain kinds of things. You basically have to intentionally ignore what the rules actually are, and actively work to play purely with the incentives and playstyles of 2nd edition. Which, you might be surprised to hear, is exactly what the 3e designers did. They presumed people would choose to continue playing exactly the way they did in 2e, and thus tried to make a system that would be rewarding. That's why Clerics are so powerful, because it was expected that they would be Brother Bactine more than half the time, and thus the power would be mitigated by choosing not to use it.

Most groups I saw played 3.5 like 2E.

As late as 2014 I saw groups who weren't playing like what you're describing. Eg they weren't using wands of CLW. Mist groups only had core book maybe one or 2 more Randoms.

Ours was the only group even vaguely plugged in. There's a current group still playing 3.5 they allow phb+1.

I think a big reason 4E died was most groups were not playing online meta so 3.5 worked for them.

Druid was an exception. Least popular Class though. I saw a grand total of 2. One was OP other was fine.
 

Split the Hoard


Split the Hoard
Negotiate, demand, or steal the loot you desire!

A competitive card game for 2-5 players
Remove ads

Top