Complete Arcane - Whirling Blade

[Caliban]

I know Skip has officially ruled that spells that require multiple attack rolls are considered volley attacks and only get the sneak attack roll on the first strike, but from a purely logical perspective it doesn't make sense. Chalk it up to a game design decision, I guess.

I disagree. I think it does make "purely logical" sense. And it's anything that makes multiple attacks as a single standard action (i.e. Manyshot), not just spells.

 

[Hypersmurf]

And it's anything that makes multiple attacks as a single standard action (i.e. Manyshot), not just spells.

Well, not Greater Manyshot...

How about the Improved Whirlwind Attack epic feat? Or the S&F Weapon Master's Ki Whirlwind?

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

Well, not Greater Manyshot...

How about the Improved Whirlwind Attack epic feat? Or the S&F Weapon Master's Ki Whirlwind?

-Hyp.

What about them? Feats or class abilities often change the rules. (So do spells for that matter, but they generally specify when they are changing/breaking a specific rule.)

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I don't know, it's a bite and if I recall my rules correctly, bites count a slashing, piercing and bludgeoning simultaneously. However, it does suggest that DR x/alignment and DR x/metal would protect against it.

"Doesn't that suggest that while it will bypass DR X/Magic, it won't bypass DR X/Evil, X/Slashing, X/Silver, or any other DR except X/Piercing?

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I don't know, it's a bite and if I recall my rules correctly, bites count a slashing, piercing and bludgeoning simultaneously.

That they do, in general.

If an intruder approaches to within 5 feet of the hound, the dog stops barking and delivers a vicious bite (+10 attack bonus, 2d6+3 points of piercing damage) once per round.

The Hound doesn't have a normal bite, apparently

-Hyp.

 

[andargor]

"The dog is considered ready to bite intruders, so it delivers its first bite on the intruder’s turn. Its bite is the equivalent of a magic weapon for the purpose of damage reduction."

Interesting, I didn't see that. It however reinforces my belief that there are notable exceptions which are clearly indicated. But there are gray zones where the spell does not specifically target or damage the affected creatures directly, which leaves applying DR a viable option.

Hyp, what did you think of my other interpretations? I'm curious.

Andargor

 

[Hypersmurf]

What about them? Feats or class abilities often change the rules. (So do spells for that matter, but they generally specify when they are changing/breaking a specific rule.)

Greater Manyshot specifically does.

Improved Whirlwind Attack and Ki Whirlwind say nothing about precision damage; they allow you to (approximately) make a whirlwind attack as a standard action. Would you consider that a volley attack?

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

Greater Manyshot specifically does.

Improved Whirlwind Attack and Ki Whirlwind say nothing about precision damage; they allow you to (approximately) make a whirlwind attack as a standard action. Would you consider that a volley attack?

-Hyp.

Would you?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Would you?

No - I'd allow precision damage on every attack in a Ki Whirlwind.

I don't think I'd use 'multiple attacks in a standard action' as my definition of a volley. I'd use 'multiple attacks simultaneously'.

Scorching Ray allows several attacks, using distinct attack rolls, but all rays are fired simultaneously. Whirlwind Attack allows several attacks, using distinct attack rolls, but they occur one after the other - I could observe the result of an attack on one opponent before deciding whether/how to attack the next.

I'd call Scorching Ray a volley, but not Ki Whirlwind.

Given that the Whirling Blades text refers to 'the last of its attacks', it seems the weapon strikes opponents sequentially, and so I wouldn't call it a volley.

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

No - I'd allow precision damage on every attack in a Ki Whirlwind.

I don't think I'd use 'multiple attacks in a standard action' as my definition of a volley. I'd use 'multiple attacks simultaneously'.

Scorching Ray allows several attacks, using distinct attack rolls, but all rays are fired simultaneously. Whirlwind Attack allows several attacks, using distinct attack rolls, but they occur one after the other - I could observe the result of an attack on one opponent before deciding whether/how to attack the next.

I'd call Scorching Ray a volley, but not Ki Whirlwind.

Given that the Whirling Blades text refers to 'the last of its attacks', it seems the weapon strikes opponents sequentially, and so I wouldn't call it a volley.

-Hyp.

And how does that make you feel?