Complete Arcane - Whirling Blade

[Elder-Basilisk]

I don't think you're missing anything. It's quite a good tactic. However, it's pretty expensive in terms of resources. Assuming a 16+ int and specialization, the character just burned half his third level spells and one second level spell for an effect that approximates a no-evasion fireball from a full-level caster. (Though it should be pointed out that he can still quite possibly miss at this point--it's not uncommon for NPCs to have touch ACs of 12-13 and dextrous types will probably have 14-16 meaning that there's a 15-35% chance that it won't do anything to any given enemy. It's good against fullplate fighters with no deflection bonuses but not as good as one might hope against rogues).

Look possible to you guys, or am I overlooking something? (I'm basing the caster off my roommates character.)

 

[Ovinomancer]

Being the DM for a player that does the wraithstrike/whirlingblade/power attack combo with a bastard sword, I agree that it is a strong combo. He gets it off two, maybe three times before being out of spells. In a dungeon enviorment it self balances with resource expediture. In a wilderness encounter it can be a tad overpowered. All depends on your campaign style.

Remeber that force effect still apply to a wraithstiked weapon. So Mage Armor and Greater Mage Armor help alot against the touch attacks.

 

[Taloras]

Yes....but give your fighter a ring of spell storing...cast the spell in it.....he throws his greatsword while using the ring....

 

[Caliban]

Remeber that force effect still apply to a wraithstiked weapon. So Mage Armor and Greater Mage Armor help alot against the touch attacks.

Um, no they don't. Force based AC bonuses help against Incorporeal Touch attacks, not regular touch attacks.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Um, no they don't. Force based AC bonuses help against Incorporeal Touch attacks, not regular touch attacks.

Right... while it seems logical that Wraithstrike should, per its flavour, allow incorporeal touch attacks, the text calls them just plain 'touch attacks'...

-Hyp.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

And, um, keep that Kraken Rogue away from me...

Just be glad it can't flank with itself!

J from Three Haligonians

 

[andargor]

This could be a basis for DM's disallowing or limiting sneak attacks with whirling blade:

Sneak Attack:
...
The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot.

It's weak, but I believe that picking out a vital spot past a certain distance would be difficult, especially since the targets are in line. Certainly, sneak attack on the first target in the line, but after that I don't think so, IMHO.

Also, since it's a spell, I don't think Damage Reduction would apply...

Andargor

 

[outlier]

It's weak, but I believe that picking out a vital spot past a certain distance would be difficult, especially since the targets are in line. Certainly, sneak attack on the first target in the line, but after that I don't think so, IMHO.

Also, since it's a spell, I don't think Damage Reduction would apply...

Andargor

I disagree with you on the DR question. The spell allows neither SR nor ST, so the damage is just non-magical slashing damage like any other weapon attack.

On the former issue, well, the rules on sneak attacking do preclude attacks against targets with partial or total concealment. It's not much of a stretch to say that someone 50' away with 10 people occluding your view of him is partially concealed. Of course, technically he has cover, not concealment. But IMHO, you should use your common sense rather than nit pick the rules -- it's a role playing game after all.

On the other hand, it seems clear from this thread that any of the proposed behaviors can be justified - sneak everybody (it's magic and you're POV moves with the animated axe), sneak nobody (the spell isn't a rogue, and sneak attack is neither a feat nor an ability per spell text), or sneak just the first target (because he blocks your view of the others). Just rule on it as DM *before* the mage chooses it as his spell.

The more interesting question would be which behavior would be more fun?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I disagree with you on the DR question. The spell allows neither SR nor ST, so the damage is just non-magical slashing damage like any other weapon attack.

Yeah, that's certainly how I read it.

Andargor - would you apply DR to the damage of a weapon under the effects of a Dancing Blade spell? (CArc - effectively gives a weapon the Dancing quality temporarily.)

What about an axe hurled by means of a Telekinesis spell?

I see the situations as being effectively the same, and I wouldn't apply DR to any of them.

-Hyp.

 

[BadMojo]

Since all the attacks happen at effectively the same time, I have no problem ruling that you can only aim the first attack well enough to apply precision damage. That is the logic behind the sneak attack limitation on Manyshot and Scorching Ray, and this looks like an equivalent situation to me.

Since you're effectively mentally directing the weapon for each attack, I don't see how it would be more difficult to aim the second attack as opposed to the first.

The only way I can see that *logically* being an issue is for attacks over 30' away, where you wouldn't be close enough to see the vital area you were endeavoring to perforate.

Then again, the rules don't always follow real world logic.