[Complete Divine] Radiant Servant of Pelor is too powerful.

[The Souljourner]

Right, sorry, didn't have my book with me, but I knew at least Glory was just a flat out Pelor domain (and a right cool one too, if you're going to go with the "I rock against undead" theme).

And for the record, while I think any cleric of Pelor would be a fool not to take this class, it just makes them slightly better. However, I think just choosing to be a cleric of Pelor is already a restriction, now add on the fact that you have to take extra turning, have to take Sun domain, and one of the abilities requires healing domain, and I think it's pretty fair. Yeah, it's good, but only if you want to do a lot of undead turning.

I agree the martial weapon proficiency is a bit much, but it's probably a copy and paste error that'll get errataed away.

Healing is a crappy, crappy, crappy, (did I mention crappy?) domain that I have never ever seen anyone take and I totally don't blame them. Yeah, let's waste half your domain spells on spells you could otherwise spontaneously cast. And as others have said, the low level spells cap out and the ability becomes useless, and at high levels, one extra hitpoint is far, far below the standard deviation for a single hit of every monster. The domain ability of Healing really should be at least as good as Augmented Healing (which, btw, totally kicks +1 caster level).

I was planning out a RSoP and this was my plan: Human, taking Empower Turning, and Divine Spell Power at 1st, Augmented Healing, at 3rd, Extra Turning at 6th, with Glory and Sun as my domains. Screw the Healing domain until I get it for free, I say... Glory and Sun have much better slot choices and much granted powers.

I think it's a cool class if you want to totally rock against undead. Otherwise, it's just a nice deviation from genero cleric.

-The Souljourner

 

[Endur]

I played a Radiant Servant of Pelor with the Glory, Sun, and Healing domains.

It was the most powerful cleric I have ever seen.

Legions of undead turned to smoke. The other PCs never had to lift a finger against undead (except for the one super-high level Boss Undead).

When the Undead weren't around, the Cleric could heal with the best of them.

And every so often, this cleric would cast spells similar to other clerics (Bulls Strength, Flame Strike, Harm, etc.).

Giving access to Glory and full caster levels and full undead turning (enhanced), the Radiant Servant of Pelor is the most powerful cleric PRC of them all.

 

[ForceUser]

I played a Radiant Servant of Pelor with the Glory, Sun, and Healing domains.

It was the most powerful cleric I have ever seen.

Legions of undead turned to smoke. The other PCs never had to lift a finger against undead (except for the one super-high level Boss Undead).

When the Undead weren't around, the Cleric could heal with the best of them.

And every so often, this cleric would cast spells similar to other clerics (Bulls Strength, Flame Strike, Harm, etc.).

Giving access to Glory and full caster levels and full undead turning (enhanced), the Radiant Servant of Pelor is the most powerful cleric PRC of them all.

That's what I've been trying to tell these jokers. I played a Radiant Servant to 13th level. He's stupid over-powered. Both of my DMs agree. We know from months of experience playing with the class. No one ability makes you go "wow, that's amazing," but the sum total of everything they get is simply too much and adds up to an extremely potent cleric.

 

[The Souljourner]

Legions of undead turn to smoke. Yeah, except that a cleric of Pelor that didn't take this class could do the same thing, just by taking Disciple of the Sun and the Sun and the Glory domains. The prestige class has an ability that just duplicates the disciple of the sun feat. Big whoop. With extra turning and a decent charisma modifier, you'll never run out of double turns either (unless you are fighting way more undead than I've ever seen in a campaign). The healing abilities are quite over stated. Sure, *if* you use a domain slot to prepare a single healing spell, you can get that spell empowered. At any level where you could maximize one of those spells, you could instead just cast Heal, which is just better and gets no benefit from the ability.

Assuming that the martial weapon proficiency is an error, that leaves.... umm... bonus domain.... which just gets you to sun, glory, healing, which is just barely better than plain old sun and glory.

Radiance is pure fluff, immunity to disease is practically worthless...

In my mind, one ability that makes you go "wow, that's amazing" is worth an almost unlimited number of "oh, yeah, that's kinda cool" powers.

Against a cleric properly built, the RSoP offers very few advantages that will truly make a difference in day to day play. Are you comparing this class to other clerics, or to other characters of the same level? Theres's a big difference.

-The Souljourner

 

[Psiblade]

I like PrCs to fit a particular concept. The RSoP fails to adhere to the concept of the wise, noble healer in a few areas. The RSoP as designed should be a healing / turning / spell casting machine not a fighting cleric. The character build therefore should de-emphasize combat.

The d6 instead of d8 does adhere to the concept of the healer. However, the book gives them martial weapons proficiency which not fit in with their lessened combat role. Also, a good fort save also does not fit their de-emphasize focus on combat.

By changing the fort save to poor and removing martial weapon proficiency, I think the Radiant Servant of Pelor fits the noble healer concept better and is better balanced with other characters. As is, the RSoP is definitely overpowered in both role and powers.

-Psiblade

 

[Marshall]

The d6 instead of d8 does adhere to the concept of the healer. However, the book gives them martial weapons proficiency which not fit in with their lessened combat role. Also, a good fort save also does not fit their de-emphasize focus on combat.

By changing the fort save to poor and removing martial weapon proficiency, I think the Radiant Servant of Pelor fits the noble healer concept better and is better balanced with other characters. As is, the RSoP is definitely overpowered in both role and powers.

-Psiblade

I disagree about the FORT save. Its almost required of an Undead Fighting specialized class.

 

[danielinthewolvesden]

Eh. It's a cleric that turns better (often derided as useless in the higher levels) and has a tint bit better healin- I say a tiny bit, as in order to get the best use of it's better healing nearly every Domain spell slot has to be taken up by the Healing Domain spells- and altho the Healing domain isn't bad- the spells are a waste of a clerics very powerful ability to memorize other spells in his Domains. Yes, you get a bonus domain- which you really can't use because you have to memorize all your domain spells as healing domain spells.

Martial weapon prof? Ok this puzzled me, makes no sense- but unless you sneak in for a one level dip, it isn't very helpful as this PrC won't be doing much in melee combat. The D6 hurts a lot. But I can see that Martial Weapons might be a typo.

I played a 3.5 Radiant Servant. A boring healing Monkey unless you are in a high undead campaign.

It's not powerful, in fact it's a tad weak. But it would kick butt in a campaign with lots of undead. Otherwise "ook, heal, ook, heal, ook"

 

[Dthamilaye]

Druids already get cool powers and 9th level spells from their base class, so they've got the most to lose from going after a PrC. Do we have anyone here that's played a druid and actually went for a PrC?

16th druid in my campaign opted for 4 levels of Natures Warrior (5 lvl PrC from Complete Warrior). That way he gets 4 attacks before epic levels. (Ie, +16 BAB at 20th level). Because his wildshape ability continues as with druid when taking NW, he does not lose any druid special abilities (except animal companion stuff).

He also loses 2 levels of spellcasting, but gets few nice abilities instead. Later on, he can get those few levels back when going 21st+ levels, so in the end, he loses only 2 caster levels (correctable with Practiced Spellcaster feat).

 

[two]

One obvious point to be made, for people that have played RSOP PC's, is that talking about your personal PC is immaterial to the discussion. Whether you found it weak OR strong OR average.

You can have the most overpowered PRC in the world, plop it down in a campaign setting unsuited for its strengths, have a player use poor tactics, etc. and it can come off as weak. Or a terrible PRC can seem strong in certain settings. It's really immaterial.

When discussing PRC design, you have to step back and see the big picture - think not only about your local campaign, but the thousands of others taking place across the globe. Balance what the PRC is GIVEN, vs. what is TAKEN away, then attempt to see the effect of this on an "average" campaign (not your own personal campaign). Attempt to balance it vs. many types of players, heavy roll players, heavy role players, tactical geniuses, tactical nitwits, etc. etc.

Obviously with one RSOP in the party all undead except the most powerful of the powerful are jokes. How much is this worth in the "average" campaign? Or Martial Proficiency? How painful are the prerequisites typically? Etc.

In sum, RSOP does seem very powerful. Many bonuses, few drawbacks. And who said +2 to will saves within 10 feet is fluff? Morale bonuses to will saves are VERY hard to come by (not simply a bard's bonus vs. fear!), and if the party keeps 2-3 pc's within 10' of the RSOP most of the time -- that +2 will save bonus will "make or break" a PC within 3-4 saves. Remember, +2 to will save is a feat. Giving everything within 10' a stackable feat, for an important save, is...well.. not fluff. It "WILL SAVE" a party member rather quickly, ha ha.

 

[Scion]

Being forced to stay within a very short distance of someone sounds like a drawback to me area of effect spells, and similar types (all targets within X distance), are very common. Spreading out is often a very good option in combat.. being forced to stay very close together can get very hindersome very fast.