Complete Scoundrel Here

[EyeontheMountain]

Trip isn't the only way to end up prone, spells, special abilities, grapples and Dive For Cover feat are all common. Compare it to one of the better feats, say dodge. +1 to AC in some situations which will 95% of the time not stop an attack from hitting vs. completely preventing 1 (or more) attacks of opportunity and save you a move action in a situation which will happen occasionally. They give very comparable benefits, the difference is that a rogue might get 10+ skill points per level but only 1 feat every few.
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To me the most common way of ending up prone is jumping down on something. Or falling down and then getting attacked. Usingthis trick inthat case is great because you can usually get a full attack in on the first round of combat.

 

[Fingers Boggis]

I'm working PURELY off the top of my head, someone can come and correct me.

You need ranks in perform dance (10?) and something else.

Five levels, d6 hd, 4 sp.

You get caster levels (if you are a caster) at 2nd/4th level.

You can use different dances (1st: enthrall, 3: fatigue, 5: fear) on foes. It lasts for 1 minute + con mod, IIRC.

At 2nd/4th level, you can deal +1d6/+2d6 damage to any foe who is watching you dance. In all other ways, its like a SA.

Its definitely a fun class. I have an NPC waiting to use it somewhere...

Looks pretty nifty to me, by the time I've qualified for Dervish I'm not sure how many levels I'll take but definitely looks good and in character.

cheers
Fingers

 

[green slime]

I'm not keen on this "trick" mechanic at all. IMO, they should be new uses for old skills. I really, really dislike this idea.

 

[Felon]

Only clerics with the magic domain, and as a second level spell, and it still takes an hour. Having the party wizard teleport to town to on pearl runs is a common occurence.

And the skill trick in question requires 12 ranks in Spellcraft, so we're talking about a trick for a minimum 9th-level character. Oh, and there's a 5 rank requirement for knoledge (arcana) and Appraise, the latter of which is not only a sorcerer or wizard's skill list. So, it's not some cheapo 2 skill point investment. And again, there is a feat that grants a similar benefit.

Trip isn't the only way to end up prone, spells, special abilities, grapples and Dive For Cover feat are all common.

Quick notes: grapple checks don't make a character prone, and calling Dive For Cover common is reaching a bit.

Compare it to one of the better feats, say dodge. +1 to AC in some situations which will 95% of the time not stop an attack from hitting vs. completely preventing 1 (or more) attacks of opportunity and save you a move action in a situation which will happen occasionally. They give very comparable benefits, the difference is that a rogue might get 10+ skill points per level but only 1 feat every few.

And a fighter gets a lot of feats but only a few skill points. What's your point?

 

[Pants]

I'm not keen on this "trick" mechanic at all. IMO, they should be new uses for old skills. I really, really dislike this idea.

[kneejerk]Having not seen the entire book, I agree.[/kneejerk]

The book looks pretty interesting, but if I get it, it will NOT be for the tricks, which don't entice me at all from what I've seen.

 

[Felon]

I'm not keen on this "trick" mechanic at all. IMO, they should be new uses for old skills. I really, really dislike this idea.

Interesting that some folks think skill tricks are too cheap for their costs while others think they should be incorporated into skills gratis.

Some say too good a deal, others say too lousy. Sounds like balance.

 

[Harm]

And the skill trick in question requires 12 ranks in Spellcraft, so we're talking about a trick for a minimum 9th-level character. Oh, and there's a 5 rank requirement for knoledge (arcana) and Appraise, the latter of which is not only a sorcerer or wizard's skill list. So, it's not some cheapo 2 skill point investment. And again, there is a feat that grants a similar benefit.

Any of these tricks that I'm interested in for existing characters I already have the pre-req skills. They're almost always ones that the class should already have. The only restriction the ranks gives is the level that a character can take them at, otherwise these tricks come so cheap they may as well be free.

Introducing Complete Scoundrel to our games = instant power-up.

And a fighter gets a lot of feats but only a few skill points. What's your point?

You obviously wouldn't be able to understand.

 

[hong]

Having the party wizard teleport to town to on pearl runs is a common occurence.

Did it ever occur to you that regular teleport runs just to do mundane stuff is kinda moronic?

If there's a change that obviates the need to do moronic things, bring it on, I say.

 

[Nightfall]

You obviously wouldn't be able to understand.

That makes three of us....

 

[green slime]

Interesting that some folks think skill tricks are too cheap for their costs while others think they should be incorporated into skills gratis.

Some say too good a deal, others say too lousy. Sounds like balance.

I disagree.

I say, I dislike the mechanic: it adds a further layer of complexity on what is already a fairly complex game. It does this, and adds nothing flavourwise. It adds complication to a character sheet. It is yet another thing for a player to forget at that crucial moment, as opposed to something that anyone skilled enough could attempt, and which therefore will be more likely to be remembered by someone at the table. Its easier to remember that Fred has skill Drive Automobile, than it is Trick: Park Buick.

What the character could do with the trick, could probably have been allowed either through a more detailed Skill explanation, or through access to a feat (whether a kind of "tactical" feat or similar construct).

Introducing a new mechanic to resolve something, for which there is already a perfectly suitable mechanic in place, is truly abhorrent game design.