Complete Series

[evildm]

Hey folks,

I'm considering allowing the use of the Complete series of books in my campaign, particularly the PrCs, and was curious if there are any "gotchas" I should be wary of (ie: imbalanced/overpowered PrCs and feats) before I allow them.

Anyone got any insight?

 

[Merlion]

I cant imagine not just allowing....whatever, and dealing with things on a case by case basis personally. I could never play in a "core only" game.


That being said...my knowledge of those books isnt total, but I'd say your only real worry is going to be:

Lots of stuff in Complete Divine. Especially the feats Divine Metamagic, Domain Spontaneity, ...and it seems like there was another but i forget it.

Anyway the one allows a Cleric to use a metamagic feat with no cost other than turning attempts (hello 24 hour Divine Power), and Domain Spontaneity allows a Cleric to cast all the spells from one of their domains in the same manner they cast cure or inflict spells (good bye any reason to have a Wizard in the party).


Also a small thing in Complete Arcane...the "Orb" spells and a like Flame Blast one and Arc of Lightning are labled Conjurations with Spell Resistance: No, but in reality are Evocations that should be subject to spell resistance (Accept the Acid Orb, that makes sense).


Beyond that, I dont remember anything from any of them. Complete Arcane especially has some nice prestige classes and spells and feats, as does Complete Warrior.

 

[sukael]

I definitely second the thoughts on Divine Metamagic and the Orb spells.

Domain Spontaneity requires a turning attempt each time, though.

 

[Merlion]

I definitely second the thoughts on Divine Metamagic and the Orb spells.

Domain Spontaneity requires a turning attempt each time, though.

Its still absurd. The fact that Clerics can access those spells at all is bad enough, but at least somewhat balanced by the fact that they can only really cast each one once per day.

Domain Spontaneity removes that. Especially with Extra Turning.


I'll add also that I tend to feel that to some extent feats are somewhat cheap for Clerics. Due to their other features, they have few feats that they really "need", as compared to other classes...so a couple Extra Turnings to power these various feats (Domain Spontaneity, Divine Metamagic etc) isnt that huge a sacrifice.

 

[Sledge]

the new "conjurations" aren't so much a bad thing. There are just a lot of people who dislike them philosophically. Would energy substitution on "Acid Arrow" change it to spell resistance: yes? If not then the new conjuration attack spells are fine. They don't represent an evocation but an actual substance of those energies. If you think that only acid specifically should be allowed a Spell Resistance: No, then of course you'll have a problem with these new spills. In that case I imagine you've already removed spells like incendiary cloud from the core rules.

 

[Thanee]

PrC: Frenzied Berserker from Complete Warrior, Ur Priest from Complete Divine, Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil from Complete Arcane are all pretty tough. Mage of the Arcane Order is somewhat broken when allowed for a sorcerer (depends a bit on the campaign style, however). Most of them are ok, tho, IMHO.

Some folks dislike Assay Resistance from Complete Arcane, since it is highly superior to the Spell Penetration feats in many situations (I don't think it's too bad, tho).

The Quill Blast spell from Complete Divine is whacky.

All those conjuration spells, which have been mentioned, make the evocation school seem kinda superfluous, that's right.

Divine Metamagic is ok, as long as it is not combined with Persistent Spell or Quicken Spell.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Sledge]

In Complete Warrior, Hulking Hurler has some serious issues. It is entirely too easy to abuse, even by accident. Stay away from it.

 

[Merlion]

the new "conjurations" aren't so much a bad thing. There are just a lot of people who dislike them philosophically. Would energy substitution on "Acid Arrow" change it to spell resistance: yes? If not then the new conjuration attack spells are fine. They don't represent an evocation but an actual substance of those energies. If you think that only acid specifically should be allowed a Spell Resistance: No, then of course you'll have a problem with these new spills. In that case I imagine you've already removed spells like incendiary cloud from the core rules.

My thing is this. Conjuration=Matter, Evocation=Energy.

Acid is matter, in actuality, even thought D&D calls it energy. Fire is energy...electricity is energy. So Conjuration should not be "conjuring" lightning. Thats what Evocation is far.

Incendiary Cloud conjures burning air. I dont have a problem with that. the Flame Blast spell "evokes" fire...not matter that is burning.


Plus most importantly....

All those conjuration spells, which have been mentioned, make the evocation school seem kinda superfluous

This is the kicker. If these sorts of spells continue to proliferate, they need to just do away with the Evocation school.

PrC: Frenzied Berserker from Complete Warrior, Ur Priest from Complete Divine, Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil from Complete Arcane are all pretty tough. Mage of the Arcane Order is somewhat broken when allowed for a sorcerer (depends a bit on the campaign style, however). Most of them are ok, tho, IMHO.

I dont think theres anything wrong with Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, unless you interpret its rules oddly. And even then its not that big a deal. Its one of my favorites from CA, along with Argent Savant.

 

[gabrion]

Fatespinner is potentially broken.

 

[Borlon]

I dont think theres anything wrong with Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, unless you interpret its rules oddly. And even then its not that big a deal. Its one of my favorites from CA, along with Argent Savant.

I know the purpose of this thread is not to argue about the issues, only to point them out, but could you clarify what the "odd" interpretations of the IotSV might be?

Fatespinner is potentially broken.

How so?