Complete? ... The basic classes are still best.

[Driddle]

Well, after four "Complete" books from WotC and no telling how many similar products from secondary and tertiary vendors, I've concluded the core character classes from the PHB and the prestige classes from the DMG are all you really need. I haven't seen one brilliant class idea that tempts me to redesign my characters' progressions through 15th level or so -- and by then we're ready to move on to a new campaign anyway. At most, all the class tweaking needed can be done with a few well-chosen feats. The rest is Complete Fluff.

 

[Crothian]

so, are these well chosaen feats also from the core books? I think the core does an okay job of giving some good ideas for the base classwes, but not all of them. Ranger and Bard have terrible prestige class options there. I hear the Scout from the new Complete books is a better Ranger then the Ranger, and that's not more powerful just better suited to the role the Ranger has.

I disagree. There are some gems that completely outshine the core books. But it does amaze me how often this subject comes up. I think it would have dawned on everyone by now that the core books by themselves work pretty well.

 

[Ranger REG]

Then stick with the core ruleset. Everything else is just optional. While it may personally disgust me that someone found the CW version of the Samurai class to be right for their game, more power to them.

 

[Darkness]

The warlock is so cool, he makes me want to throw out the sorcerer.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

The warlock is so cool, he makes me want to throw out the sorcerer.

Ironically, the Warlock makes me want to get rid of the Wizard.

Oh, and the Core books aren't enough. Don't you people know this? Its like those evil miniatures...need more books. More everything. If I don't have them, I'll be happy and have money!!

 

[Zelda Themelin]

I agree. There are some few good prestige classes, but for fighter I can't find almost anything good. I mean, it would be nice to find some class that has few specific features, but doesn't take away fighter's every free pickable feats. I find it that many fighter classes that aim to imply more actually imply less.

Sorcerer though, could use some good classes, but of all books I have read (including dragon magazines) I have found exacatly two classes that give something more (and being only spontanious caster specific). Then again, no need for more but I find this funny.

I rarely feel any real urge to go beyond core, when picking classes or feats. I own hundreds of books (literally), but nothing gets as much reading as good old PHB.

Ah, and my pet peave. Aren't prestige classes supposed to be, well more powerful than core classes, not less?
IMO specialization should be done with feats, not with prestige classes and weak "prestige classes" should be called npc-classes.

 

[MerricB]

But it does amaze me how often this subject comes up. I think it would have dawned on everyone by now that the core books by themselves work pretty well.

Indeed. I'd quite happily run a core-only campaign. (I almost did so for years).

However, now I have the Complete books, and my players are taking advantage of the fact. So am I, actually.

I have a NPC Warlock (great, great class), and have seen as PCs the Samurai, Spirit Shaman, Warmage, Swashbuckler, Favoured Soul, Psychic Warrior and Soulblade. The Spellthief has made a few of my players very interested in playing one as well.

Cheers!

 

[ivocaliban]

I guess it's all where you're coming from. I agree that the core classes are, in general, where it's at, but the Prestige Classes in the DMG are rarely, if ever, used by PCs in my games. I have several NPCs who are Assassins, Archmages, Heirophants, Blackguards and so on, but my players seem to have little interest in them. And, there's nothing wrong with "fluff," as you call it. I prefer the term variety, though I suppose it's a matter of semantics. Either way, they're called supplements for a reason.

Vanilla ice cream is great, but I like my chocolate sprinkles, too!

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Amen! Up with core rules; down with bloated crunch!

 

[Psychic Warrior]

Wow! This reminds me of a discussion I had about this very same thing.


In 1991. :\