Complete Warrior: Who's the best warrior of the bunch?

[Impeesa]

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=142565&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

There's some truly horrendous Hulking Hurler abuse going on here. And I like it. Off the top of my head, I don't remember seeing anything else in there that opened itself up to that kind of open-ended madness...

 

[Lord Pendragon]

There's some truly horrendous Hulking Hurler abuse going on here. And I like it. Off the top of my head, I don't remember seeing anything else in there that opened itself up to that kind of open-ended madness...

And people had a problem with Sword and Fist!

 

[Chasmodai]

I disagree with the FB hype. They're much too risky to play, what with the 'kill your party members when you've run out of enemies clause in the infernal contract.'

Now, the Justiciar, that's a worthwhile (and cool) thing to play. Assume this build:

Rogue5/Ranger2/Invisible Blade5/Justiciar8. With Two-Weapon Fighting (Greater), two daggers, Crippling Strike, Bleeding Wound, Subduing Strike, and Quick Draw, I will full attack you, dealing 64d6 points of subdual sneak attack damage, making you lose 8 points of Strength, and 8hp a round.

Then I do it again. Another 8 points of Strength, lose 16hp a round. Now, I grapple you, and hog-tie you.


And I throw yo ass in jail.

I also have to agree that the Mindspy, the Warshaper and the Master of the Unseen Hand are great PrCs to play - even if only for the cool/quirky factor. I still think that the Bladesinger's Song of Celerity got nerfed a bit too much and that the Ravager is still bad.

Whatever it is, I wanna play a Justiciar.

 

[James McMurray]

FB's aren't the best PCs, true. I killed a party playing one once.

They make perfect party killers as NPCs though, since the deathless frenzy pretty much removes 90% of a party's ability to deal with them.

That's my biggest problem with the FB as a class. Its too dangerous to make into a PC, and too powerful to use as an NPC.

 

[hong]

FB's aren't the best PCs, true. I killed a party playing one once.

They make perfect party killers as NPCs though, since the deathless frenzy pretty much removes 90% of a party's ability to deal with them.

That's my biggest problem with the FB as a class. Its too dangerous to make into a PC, and too powerful to use as an NPC.

One fix might be to limit the deathless frenzy to negative your normal hit point total. If you started with 100 hp, then you can keep going until you reach -100 hp, at which point you drop. This represents roughly a doubling of the character's ability to take punishment, for a short time. Phasing in the deathless thing, rather than making it a single ability, might also be a good idea, since doubling your effective hit points in one go is a big jump.

 

[James McMurray]

hong, are you feeling ok? That reply actually made sense.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Hmmm, possibly, mate, possibly. I wonder if you can combine Ranged Power Attack with Meteor Strike?

The build I'm talking about doesn't bother power attacking, because the extra damage is insignificant. I really mean thousands of d6 of damage (I think my simplest build, using only rage and permanent items does 1331d6 damage, plus strength bonus if you can be bothered adding it).

As for frenzied berserker? Run away. He'll fizzle eventually, then you can turn around and splat him.

 

[Zoatebix]

Impeesa's link (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=142565&perpage=30&pagenumber=1) eventually spirals out of control to the tune of 540 MILLION damage in a single attack from a non-epic character (that's page 3, I think).

...Of course, the Frenzied Berserker would technically still be alive after that...

EDIT: oh, whoops Saeviomagy brought up the Hulking Hurler first...
-z

 

[Pax]

The environment is Greyhawk. The foe is "any given denizen of Greyhawk." Let me know if you need further hand holding, I'll be here all night.

Day or night? Summer, winter, fall, or spring? What sort of terrain - mountain, hill, plains, desert, swamp, forest,urban, the Sea of Dust, tropical beach, stony beach, jungle, or what? Which instance of that terrain? When in Greyhawk's history? What total character level? What base class(es) allowed? What external "buff" spells can/will be cast by presumed "other party members"?

And those're just the EASY list of variables ...

Oh so you can answer the question after all. Here, take a cookie and run along now. Or you can stay if you can tell me one single Complete Warrior class that would deal more damage to ANY foe in melee range than a Frenzied Berserker.

AHA! Already, the first artificial limit: melee range. Why that close? Why not ANY range? There are several ranged-combat focussed classes in CW, after all.

But still, you take any FB you want ... I'll take a halfling Rogue(10)/Invisible Blade(5)/Master Thrower(5). Master Thrower "tricks" will be sneaky throw, weak spot, and double-toss. With an opposed roll (my sleight of hand vs the opponent's spot check), I get to spend a standard action to make two ranged-touch attacks with my throwing daggers, each of which get +8d6 sneak attack damage (total). That's one HEAP of damage, other than against crit-immune or Uncanny Dodge opponents. And he UD isn't always going to help you,either.

Because Sneaky Throw means you're flatfooted for that group of attacks - no Dex bonus, and hello sneak attack. No dex bonus, and a touch attack, also means (if I have the strength,which wouldn't be hard to manage at 20th level) hello power attack. Let's see, a pair of +5 returning daggers, power attack for -10/+10, that's 1d4+15+8d6 damage each, for 2d4+30+16d6 damage.

All at just beyond melee range, mind. Oh, but wait, you didn't want to hear about every possible situation, just your pet "in melee range" setup.

Feh.

 

[James McMurray]

Of course, as an Invisible Blade you can do even more if the guy closes to melee range. GTWF with free action bluffing means (If I'm counting correctly) 7 sneak attacks per round. I don't think sense motive is on the FB's skill list, so good luck beating your take ten results. Drop the MT levels for more Rogue levels and that's 7d4 + 105 + 77d6 damage.

Against foes that are immune to crits you're in a tough spot, but other than that? Eek!

We've got an 11th level goblin IB in our City of the Spider Queen campaign and he is a terror to behold. Elf bane daggers + the Exalted Sneak Attack feat = no one stands in front of him for long. I tried to make a damage dealing paladin / anointed knight, but I don't come anywhere close to the damage he can output. I'm quite a bit better off against the undead though.