Conan/Conan II

[reapersaurus]

It's a losing proposition to compare Conan 2 to Conan1.
That's like saying Kathy Ireland looks better in a swimsuit than Ellen DeGeneres.

The _story_ (maybe plot would be a better word) was not that bad IMO.
It was written (I'm going from memory here) by Roy Thomas and his pal, and it was better than many others that haven't had as much criticism heaped on them (Kull the Conquerer, Scorpion King, etc).

It had neat fantasy aspects (the spirit-bird kidnapping the princess, the ascent into the insane tower, the battle in the mirror room, the crypt dungeon-crawl, the wizard battle, the rebirth of the old god, the fantastic battle vs Dregoth, etc.

These story aspects are overshadowed by the more superficial and obvious things, like Olivia painfully shouting "Bombata!" ad nausea, as well as the BAD (and unneeded) comic relief (and the other things you mentioned).

 

[jdavis]

http://us.imdb.com/AlternateVersions?0082198

Alternate Versions for
Conan the Barbarian (1982)


European version features alternate footage and is slightly re-edited. The first R1 DVD release has the US theatrical cut of the film, while the newer R1 Special Edition DVD adds some deleted scenes and features the longer/alternate international version (130 minutes). There are 4 minutes of additional scenes in the DVD Chapter "Doom's Day" involving the Princess (Valerie Quennessen) where she is shown with Conan entering Doom's Mountain and watching as Conan confronts and kills Thulsa Doom and burns the palace. Conan is later seen to lead her by the hand and then carrying her away. The last sentence of Conan's "A King by his own hand" silent text ending "but that is another story" has been changed to read "And this story shall also be told" and includes a voice over by Mako (Akiro)


In addition to the original ending, the R1 Special Edition DVD adds an intricate scene of dialogue between Conan and Subotai as they prepare before the battle on the mounds.

 

[jdavis]

and it was better than many others that haven't had as much criticism heaped on them (Kull the Conquerer, Scorpion King, etc).

I'll agree much more criticism should be heaped Kull the Conquerer and Scorpion King.

The movie was a mess from the get go. Everything that could of been good about it they bumbled in some way. Somewhere along the way they just missed the point of Conan, every time it started to get decent they decided to throw in a joke or some award winning Arnold acting and the whole thing became a mess.

The movie wasn't Howard the Duck bad but it wasn't really any good either. Mute it and fast forward between fight scenes and it is pretty decent. Hey if you can get both of them for $19 then just call it getting Destroyer for free, it's not like you would pay any less for just the first one, call it a free gift or a drink coaster or a Christmas gift for that cousin you never liked. It's not like they were packaging Red Sonya with it.

Some interesting trivia I read at the internet movie database while looking up the writers and directors.

Conan the Barbarian:
"The Mattel Toy Company started to make some Conan action figures, but after viewing the film, the executives realized that they couldn't afford to be associated with a film with such graphic sex and violence. They gave their doll blonde hair, called him "He-man", and thus created He-Man and the Masters of the Universe."

Conan the Destroyer:
Some scenes were filmed in the same location and at the same time as scenes from Dune (1984).

Cameo: [Andre the Giant] the resurrected horned giant.

(Oh yea the story credits on Conan the Destroyer were Gerry Conway, Roy Thomas and Stanley Mann)

 

[Dark Jezter]

D'oh!

Looks like I made a mistake. I said Special Edition when I meant Collector's Edition. Damn that confusing DVD terminology!

Anyways, the Conan Collector's Edition is very excellent. The video quality is great, there's some cool new footage in the movie, the director's commentary (Featuring John Milius and Arnold Shwarznegger himself) is one of the best I've ever listened to, and the special features are absolutely wonderful. I've watched it so many times I've lost count.

Conan the Destroyer dosen't hold a candle to the original. When I was a kid, I thought that it was excellent (because my parents wouldn't let me watch the original Conan due to all of the sex and violence in it ), but now I can barely stand it. I can see why John Milius didn't want anything to do with this sequel after some studio executive said it would be a good idea to make a Conan movie that was less violent and more family-friendly than the original.

John Milius has since written a script for a third Conan movie called King Conan: Crown of Iron, and based on the script reviews scattered around various movie gossip web sites, the story for King Conan manages to live up to the original. I just hope that Arnold's run for California Governer won't be the final nail in the coffin for this movie. As recently as a month-and-a-half ago, John Milius and Arnold had lunch and Arnold agreed to return to the role of Conan. But if Arnold becomes governer, the movie will probably miss its window of opportunity and never be made.

As for other sword & sorcery flicks, I actually enjoyed The Scorpion King and Kull the Conquerer. I thought they were enjoyable popcorn flicks that didn't require any deep thinking. I'd give an opinion on Beastmaster, but I haven't seen that movie since I was about 10 years old and can't remember it very well. Red Sonja was bad, really bad.

 

[Wormwood]

But if Arnold becomes governer, the movie will probably miss its window of opportunity and never be made.

At the risk of violating this board's taboio against political speech, let me just say this:

A vote for Arnold is a vote *against* King Conan: Crown of Iron.

Let's be honest here: it doesn't *really* matter who ends up elected as governor of California---it's a the freakin' Siege Perilous of American politics...

On the other hand, NOBODY but Armold could play King Conan. Ever.

Contemplate that while you are voting, citizen.

 

[jdavis]

Being that I don't live in California, it's not a political topic at all for me. Can't he run for public office after he makes Conan3? Come on Arnold it's so very close, you can be governer anytime but you get much older King Conan won't ever happen.

 

[Shadowdancer]

I know that as I get older, my memory is starting to play tricks on me. But I could swear I read an editorial in Dragon magazine written by Gary Gygax back shortly after the release of the first Conan movie. In it, he expressed his disappointment with the movie, and that he knew other gamers were also disappointed with it. He said that since TSR owned some of the rights to the Conan character, that TSR would influence Howard's widow to require the studio to make a sequel that was more like a D&D adventure. And if you think about it, the second Conan movie is like a D&D adventure.

I'm going to have to dig up my Dragon anthology CD-ROM and try to track down that editorial.

 

[Dark Jezter]

I know that as I get older, my memory is starting to play tricks on me. But I could swear I read an editorial in Dragon magazine written by Gary Gygax back shortly after the release of the first Conan movie. In it, he expressed his disappointment with the movie, and that he knew other gamers were also disappointed with it. He said that since TSR owned some of the rights to the Conan character, that TSR would influence Howard's widow to require the studio to make a sequel that was more like a D&D adventure. And if you think about it, the second Conan movie is like a D&D adventure.

I'm going to have to dig up my Dragon anthology CD-ROM and try to track down that editorial.

Howard was never married, so there couldn't be a Howard widow.

 

[Frostmarrow]

Howard was never married, so there couldn't be a Howard widow.

Which is a shame. I always thought he should marry that Renee Zellwegger-chick.

 

[Villano]

The problem with Destroyer is not that it's a bad movie or even a bad fantasy movie, but that it isn't a Conan movie at all.

I wonder if people would hate it as much if it was rewritten slightly and was The Sword & The Sorcerer 2?

I still maintain that Bombata should have been the hero. Get rid of Conan completely. Bombata could have been a loyal servant and bodyguard of the girl. At the climax, when he discovers that she's going to be sacrificed, he rebels.