Conan the Confessor

[Iron_Chef]

I'll be interested to hear how you get on with that - its the one that I read that put me off him (I'd never heard of Offut in any other writing BTW - what else does/did he do?)

It was at least 10 years ago that I read it, I guess, but once you've finished the story I'll tell you what I didn't like.

Cheers

Andrew J. Offut was the president of the Science Fiction Writers of America at the time he wrote his Conan books.

You know, I screwed up and read Offut's Conan books out of order. The correct order is:

CONAN AND THE SORCERER (illustrated with 50 pics by Esteban Maroto)

CONAN THE MERCENARY (illustrated with 50 pics by Esteban Maroto)

THE SWORD OF SKELOS (illustrated by Tim Kirk, but hardly as lavishly or numerously as Marato---in fact, he only draws examples of various items---he also illustrated Poul Anderson's CONAN THE REBEL in the same way, only adding buildings to his examples, the one highlight of Anderson's lame "sequel" to Howard's QUEEN OF THE BLACK COAST)

It was impossible to tell the series order from reading the backs of the books (different publishers, Ace for the first two and Bantam for the final), and I went by copyright/publishing dates, which led me astray. Anyway, each is relatively self-contained and does enough to clue the read in to the previous books adventures.

So far, I'm only past Chapter 1 of THE MERCENARY (wherein Baron Sabininus of Korveka strikes a bargain with a sorcerer of Khitai to restore the appearance of his lost youth so he may intrigue in Khauran and his native Koth, gaining glory and respect before he dies. I have no problem with the book so far, although it seems perhaps not quite as good as the other two Offut books (it is shorter), but nowhere near "bad". That may be only my initial perception, as I'm disgruntled with the publishers for not doing more to tell me the order to read them in. I suppose they were broken into three short novels (205 pages, 184 pages, 249 pages, respectively, AFAIK) in order to make more money for the publisher. Keep in mind that the first two's actual text page count are dramatically reduced by perhaps 50 pages by the many full page and half page illustrations, as well as "filler" splash page chapter announcements).

Unlike all other Conan novels I know of (with the notable exception of Jordan's CONAN THE INVINCIBLE, THE DEFENDER and THE TRIUMPHANT), these three form a continuing story with repeat characters that are much better when read in order. I wondered why the story of how Conan got his soul back was glossed over in THE SWORD OF SKELOS, and now I know why: it's covered in depth in THE MERCENARY. I'll post more in a day or three when I finish it.

The Conans I had a devil of a time getting through were the non-Howard deCamp/Carter tales in the old Ace twelve volume set, especially the further I got in the series, until they became virtually unreadable by the end. While I don't have a problem with deCamp/Carter rearranging the stories in chronological order and providing helpful notes to each previous adventure as they go along, I object to the clunky, boring way in which they aped Howard, and by the unbridled arrogance they exhibited in revising and in many cases, rewriting, Howard. But even their revisions of Howard's originals weren't so bad by way of comparison to their "originals". And surely it would have been better to make Howard's original versions available earlier? For example, I have one book from 1975, edited by Karl Edward Wagner featuring four Howard Conan originals, THE PEOPLE OF THE BLACK CIRCLE, wherein Wagner cites copyright problems in bringing more Howard Conan originals into print (perhaps due to deCamp/Carter wanting to hog all the glory by controlling the way in which Conan was given to the public through their own hare-brained pastiches). Wagner places the Conan tales in the order in which they were first published in WEIRD TALES, rather than opting for the DeCamp/Carter approach to adventure, not publishing, chronology (Conan's adventures were published in no particular chronological order, which Howard explained as the order in which Conan himself related them to Howard, LOL).

 

[Ian Sturrock]

I'm intrigued as to what might be different about Conan d20 as against just using D&D rules for it... I'll check out the other threads.

Right now, there's a lot more traffic on rpg.net about Conan d20 than there is here, though I'm sure that will change once the game is in the shops:

http://rpg.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97322&perpage=10&pagenumber=1

http://rpg.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97330&perpage=10&pagenumber=1

http://rpg.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97422&perpage=10&pagenumber=1

 

[RFisher]

Gygax not only said Tolkien wasn't as big an influence, I pretty sure he said he read (and enjoyed) The Hobbit but never finished LotR. He has said he mainly added Tolkien inspired bits to D&D as a marketing move: to appeal to Tolkien fans.

I enjoy Tolkien greatly, and I'm running a LotR campaign right now, which I'm really enjoying; but it's made me realize that it isn't my preferred style of RPG. I can't wait to get back to gaming more in the tradition of Howard, Lieber, & Vance.

(Although I sought out Lieber & Vance books since I read the recommended reading in the original DMG, I was lucky that--for some reason--I didn't start reading Conan stories until recently when the unadulterated REH became available again.)

As for Mongoose's Conan game, it's the first non-D&D d20 game that has gotten me really interested. I probably wouldn't run a straight Hyborian campaign with it though. I'd prefer to create my own melieu in the same tradition.

 

[Swoop109]

As for Mongoose's Conan game, it's the first non-D&D d20 game that has gotten me really interested. I probably wouldn't run a straight Hyborian campaign with it though. I'd prefer to create my own melieu in the same tradition.

Your not alone in that feeling.
I am a co-owner for my LGS and work there part time. For the last several weeks I've had people coming in wanting to know when the Conan rpg was going to be released.
The strange thing is, only about half of them want to run it in the Conan setting. The other half wants this game so that they can create their own settings. They want a game that allows for high mortality combat, dark magic and little to no non-human races. they have been reading the excerpts form Signs&Portents, seen the thread on rpg.net and heard me speak of this game. I think that Mongoose is going to have a big hit with this game, I just feel that only a limited number of players are going to use the original setting.

 

[Iron_Chef]

I think that Mongoose is going to have a big hit with this game, I just feel that only a limited number of players are going to use the original setting.

Although I plan on using the Hyborian setting, much of the game's value comes from the ability it will give me to run Conanesque d20 in ANY setting, the same way Call of Cthulhu, Star Wars, Spycraft or d20 Modern can be adapted to other settings. However, none of them will make it so darn EASY as Conan hopefully will to run the kind of grim, gritty fantasy I want. I want to get as far away from FR/Eberron (some might say WoTC) style of uber-magic as possible! Having read a ton of Conan novels (most re-read again recently in preparation for the coming of Conan d20 and my desire to start a Hyborian campaign), I really must say that the authors do a fantastic job of bringing the feel of the Hyborian Age to life, with living, breathing people and places that ooze atmosphere and charm---probably in part due to their real world connections, which allow you to easily grasp what the people and culture must be like, at least superficially.

I'm having a terrible time picking a starting spot for my Conan campaign, but am leaning heavily toward the Zamora/Turan/Vilayet area, simply because so many of the books take place there. If only the Hyborian Gazetteer and Zamora suplements were not so far in the future. The previews of the world overview in the main book don't look overly promising in terms of detailed info and maps (that's what the Hyborian Gazetteer is for, I assume). I hope that at least ONE city will be mapped out so GM's have an easy starting location!

With the magic system largely still sight unseen, I wonder if Call of Cthulhu d20's "corrupt magic" might not be a better way of handling magic in Conan. Also, Fantasy Flight's "Small Gods" and "Cults" rules from Path of Faith might be a good way to simulate the various small cults and demon gods, with some tweaking. This is all just guesswork, as the actual systems in the book have yet to be fully revealed... I can't wait to get this game!

 

[Swoop109]

There is a thread over on rpg.net talking about the style of magic used in the Conan rpg. you can see it at;

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97422&perpage=10&pagenumber=1

 

[Mog Elffoe]

Today, Jan.22, would have been REH's 98th birthday. Do you feel that his stories are as good as any current fantasy writers?

That's awesome! I share my birthday with one of my all time favorite authors!

Thanks for posting that, Swoop!

 

[Swoop109]

That's awesome! I share my birthday with one of my all time favorite authors!

Thanks for posting that, Swoop!

Your Welcome.

 

[buzz]

Throwing in my coupla' coppers...

I never made it through any Tolkien until a few years into my gaming habit when I read The Hobbit. I'd probably say that it's my favorite fantasty novel, if not *the* great fantasy novel. It wasn't until almost 20 years later that I really sat down and read through LOTR. I freaking loved it, and plan to re-read it on a regular basis.

So, like others, I was cutting my fantasy teeth on other authors when I was a kid. This included Conan, Elric, some Xanth, Amber, Feist's original Magician books, Fafhrd & Grey Mouser, Narnia, Asprin's Myth series and a good dose of Lovecraft... there was also a good dose of crap, e.g. Terry Brooks*.

Fafhrd & Grey Mouser was definitely a big revelation for me. I don't think any other series really shouts "This is where D&D comes fom!" as loudly as this.

So, I guess I enjoy it all. I'm certainly intrigued by the upcoming Conan RPG; I've been posting in the threads about it over at RPG.net. I'm not a big fan of Mongoose's products, but what I've been hearing about this RPG and OGL Horror is starting to convince me to make an exception.


* Apologies to those who may enjoy such authors, but I tend to be sort of a snob when it comes to fantasy... which I guess is ironic, considering the public's generally low opinion of genre fiction. No amount of reccomendations will get me to read any more Eddings (give me those weeks of my life back!!!), or Jordan, or Salvatore, or almost anything tied to a D&D campaign setting.

 

[Iron_Chef]

So far, I'm only past Chapter 1 of THE MERCENARY (wherein Baron Sabininus of Korveka strikes a bargain with a sorcerer of Khitai to restore the appearance of his lost youth so he may intrigue in Khauran and his native Koth, gaining glory and respect before he dies. I have no problem with the book so far, although it seems perhaps not quite as good as the other two Offut books (it is shorter), but nowhere near "bad". That may be only my initial perception, as I'm disgruntled with the publishers for not doing more to tell me the order to read them in. I suppose they were broken into three short novels (205 pages, 184 pages, 249 pages, respectively, AFAIK) in order to make more money for the publisher. Keep in mind that the first two's actual text page count are dramatically reduced by perhaps 50 pages by the many full page and half page illustrations, as well as "filler" splash page chapter announcements).

I'm still not done with CONAN THE MERCENARY, but only have about 40 pages to go, considering all the illustrations taking up page count. I would have to agree with you that this book kind of sucks. It seems rushed, the writing is sloppy, the characters not as interesting as the other two books in Offut's Conan trilogy. It doesn't completely blow, it starts off okay, then starts losing steam quickly. There is a lot of redundancy in the descriptions, even using the same adjectives on the same page to describe the same thing! It's inexcusably sloppy and a bit of a chore to read through, though this is somewhat mitigated by its brevity (approx. 180 pages including 50 B&W illustrations and two page chapter headings, LOL). I can see how this book could turn you off from reading Offut or any non-Howard Conan author's contributions to the series. My low opinion of CONAN THE MERCENARY nor does it change my extremely high opinion of Andrew J. Offut's bookends to the trilogy: CONAN AND THE SORCERER and THE SWORD OF SKELOS, which make CONAN THE MERCENARY unneccessary. Despite what some say, while there may never be another Robert E. Howard, there will always be more good Conan stories, even if they must be mixed in among the bad. CONAN THE MERCENARY, despite all its faults, is still not as painful as CONAN THE GLADIATOR by Leonard Carpenter or CONAN THE REBEL by Poul Anderson. I would say go to your used bookstore and thumb through copies of Offut's other two Conans, which, IMO, rank as some of the best non-Howard Conans I've read (and I've read a lot!).