Conan vs Lord of the Rings

[Iron_Chef]

that's because you didn't finish reading The Return of the King!

Saruman does make another appearance...

Well, where is it? I didn't see one single frame of him in the movie RETURN OF THE KING, and somebody who read the book said he ain't in there, either.

 

[Iron_Chef]

i prefer LOTR to Conan, but i'll agree with you here. Tolkien usually paints his evil as Evil, and we as the readers aren't really meant to have any empathy for the villains. OTOH, Tolkien was emulating the old mythologies, whereas "empathy for the villain" i believe is a much more modern notion.

It's not that I need to feel empathy for the villain... I just like to see him, know his name, understand his motivations and get some scenes with him doing evil things or interacting with the heroes in more than just a fight scene. We get that with Saruman in Fellowship and Two Towers, though he wimps out when the Ents show up and hides in his Tower! Not much of a badass there. Any D&D wizard would have started lobbing fireballs at that point, then teleported away if it still looked grim. With Sauron, we see him in humanoid form looking all super cool in the prologue to Fellowship, then all we get is a big dumb eyeball that can't do anything or go anywhere, and has maybe two lines of dialogue over three movies! Hard to get interested in Sauron the Eye. I want to hear about ambulatory, humanoid Sauron. Giant magic eyeballs falling out of towers just don't do much for me. I'd much rather see Thoth-Amon about to sacrifice a pretty slave girl on an altar to dark gods with Conan busting in and cleaving off bad guy heads left and right, but that's me. I understand Tolkien's mythic flavor/allegory and while I enjoy it somewhat, I prefer the pure pulp action of Howard, or the gritty urban decay of Lieber or Asprin. Heck, even John Norman's GOR books!

 

[Frostmarrow]

Well, where is it? I didn't see one single frame of him in the movie RETURN OF THE KING, and somebody who read the book said he ain't in there, either.

That's because he changes his name to Sharkey.

 

[Zarrock God of Evil]

That's because he changes his name to Sharkey.

Yes and he is dealt with in more detail in the TTT also - the complaining poster above may want to read the Voice of Saruman chapter if in doubt. In addition, a modified version of that scene (some 11 minutes long) will appear in RotK Extended Edition next November and reveal the fates of Saruman and Wormtongue....

-Zarrock

 

[d4]

That's because he changes his name to Sharkey.

though it's still darn obvious who he is...

i think his friend didn't read that chapter too thoroughly, if he missed seeing Saruman there.

 

[Null Boundry]

I actually like this idea. It's realistic, and makes getting into ANY fight scary, as it should be. D&D is too far in the opposite "video game" approach for me, where everybody has healing magic and no fear of death from a crazed farmhand with a pitchfork or courtesan's dagger. Players should ALWAYS try to find a non-combat solution to any confrontation, for their own good health, so that when all else fails, and swords clash, it feels truly brutal and barbaric, like there was no other choice, and that it's "do or die." Those are the battles you will remember and talk about... if you live, or if you don't die a lingering death from infection days later.

The downside to this is what happens if one charecter gets a kicking but the others don't or is just unlucky. Is the party meant to stop for months until they recover? If there are time constraints they would be forced to leave the charecter behind leaving the player nothing to do. I don't think many people would take kindly being told to not bother turning up for the next 3 months as your charecter is recovering.

 

[Numion]

I actually like this idea. It's realistic, and makes getting into ANY fight scary, as it should be. D&D is too far in the opposite "video game" approach for me, where everybody has healing magic and no fear of death from a crazed farmhand with a pitchfork or courtesan's dagger.

I have a gut feeling that it's mostly the DMs that want fights like these. Players might find recovering for months a bit dull, in my experience.

Hey, you used the magic "video game" word, your stance is superior!

 

[d4]

I have a gut feeling that it's mostly the DMs that want fights like these. Players might find recovering for months a bit dull, in my experience.

you might be right, but i think it's more of a style issue than necessarily a DM/player split.

as a DM, i prefer more cinematic/action movie/"video game" style combats than overly realistic ones. i'm looking forward to reading in detail the "reserve points" alternate rule in the upcoming Unearthed Arcana. sounds right up my alley.

 

[Frostmarrow]

Fast recovery of wounded PCs is key to a good and enjoyable RPG in my opinion. However, to me it is not vital that that recovery comes from clerics casting divine spells upon you. In the Covenant-series of books for example the very earth can be used as a fix-all remedy (a somewhat modified truth, I know). In Conan I hope to see something like Mearls' Reserve Points-system or something else that ensures that my character will recover quickly from wounds.

 

[Desdichado]

Well, where is it? I didn't see one single frame of him in the movie RETURN OF THE KING, and somebody who read the book said he ain't in there, either.

Someone who read the book ... didn't.