D&D 4E Concealment in 4e

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

There is something seriously not right about that. Perhaps its the way they stack, but those numbers just don't look right.

Star Wars numbers are wonked out to support a very specific power curve:

*Low level characters are competent vs low level characters

*Groups of Low Level characters are somewhat competent vs higher levels

*High Levels are terrifying vs low levels

*High Levels are pretty incompetnent vs high levels

It's this:

- I'm wailing on Storm Troopers, yeah!

- I'm definitely running away from the Storm Trooper army eventually...

- I am running away from Storm Troopers backed by Vader right freakin now. Obi would you mind dying to save us?

- I am a jedi capable of destroying whole armies but when one little Sith Lord shows up I'm out for 15 minutes of screen time right there.

Otherwise the Concealment Mechanic works fantasically. And I love the way they do low light, ignore concealment from shadow, and darkvision, ignore total concealment from darkness.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Couldn't they require an attack against AC simultaneous with an attack against Reflex to simulate the concealment portion (with appropriate modifiers on the Reflex portion to accommodate the amount of concealment)?

Reflex tracked AC down to the SAGA rules, killed it, ate it, and subsumed its portfolio.

Reflex is the master now.

 

[GreatLemur]

It always struck me as drastically dumb that the d20 system asks people to break out the percentile dice to roll against probabilities that could easily be handled by a freaking d20. Hopefully, that will end.

 

[Eldragon]

The nice thing about the 3e concealment is it gave characters an option to use a mechanic for defense besides AC. Which is very useful when facing opponents that have a very good BaB. Much like how Mirror Image is a great spell because your opponent is trying to hit the mirrors, and your AC does not matter much.

If all defensive mechanics are remodeled into AC bonuses, defensive spells will simply become flavorful ways of adding to your AC, instead of providing something unique. e.g. If Blur adds +4 AC, and Shield adds +4 AC, why bother having two separate spells that do the same thing?

 

[glass]

I hate the miss chance roll for concealment. I hope it will be a straight modifier to AC. Make it something like a +20 for invisibility or darkness where you are basically swinging blindly.

The most frustrating thing in the world for me was rolling a natural 20, but then blowing the miss chance. A perfect strike...if only your target had been where you struck perfectly.

I think I just thought of a new houserule for my 3e game: Ignore the miss chance if you roll a natural 20. Problem solved.


glass.

 

[TerraDave]

The miss roll: a bit of "simulationism" that is out of touch with todays (or yesterdays) D&D?

I kinda like it. But maybe more in theory then practice.

 

[danzig138]

It always struck me as drastically dumb that the d20 system asks people to break out the percentile dice to roll against probabilities that could easily be handled by a freaking d20. Hopefully, that will end.

It makes sense to me, since, as I understand things, the original idea was to use the d20 for rolls that could be modified, and % for rolls that couldn't be modified.

I think they might have moved from that in later books though.

I do think that the miss chance should really be a penalty though. The 15th level Fighter should have a better chance of accurately targeting an opponent he can't see than a 1st level fighter, and the flat miss chance doesn't do that.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

The nice thing about the 3e concealment is it gave characters an option to use a mechanic for defense besides AC. Which is very useful when facing opponents that have a very good BaB. Much like how Mirror Image is a great spell because your opponent is trying to hit the mirrors, and your AC does not matter much.

If all defensive mechanics are remodeled into AC bonuses, defensive spells will simply become flavorful ways of adding to your AC, instead of providing something unique. e.g. If Blur adds +4 AC, and Shield adds +4 AC, why bother having two separate spells that do the same thing?

Agreed. If I'm going against an enemy that I know has a huge attack bonus (like 5+ greater than my AC), then I'd prefer to go with some concealment, since it will give me a better chance to be missed than some cover would. On the other hand, cover may be just what the doctor ordered against an opponent who isn't such an "automatic hit".

I suppose that if it hurts on a personal level to waste a good roll, then checking for concealment first would be the way to go (assuming you don't have a sadistic DM who won't allow you to do that).

 

[BASHMAN]

I hate the miss chance roll for concealment. I hope it will be a straight modifier to AC. Make it something like a +20 for invisibility or darkness where you are basically swinging blindly.

The most frustrating thing in the world for me was rolling a natural 20, but then blowing the miss chance. A perfect strike...if only your target had been where you struck perfectly.

This is why I refuse to roll my attack roll until AFTER I pass the miss chance. Less chance of becoming crestfallen / pissed off and flipping over the table. If the GM insists on rolling miss chance first. I just wont attack that creature.

 

[Archade]

Our group already does use a d20 for concealment and other percentages. If you have concealment, the character gets a defensive roll -- on a 1 2 3 or 4 the shot misses.

We do the same for stabilization and total concealment.