Concerns about ship sizes used by D20 Future

[Ranger REG]

Not really to outrun the missle, I should have said missles would be usless at anything other then short range and slow sped combat.

Including them long-range missiles? I dunno. Tactically, targeting a missile at long range could disrupt the targeted ship from wanting to close in on you, unless of course she has a sufficient defense system like an ECM (to disrupt weapon's targeting system) or a chaff, or willing to take the brunt of the missile impact.

 

[genshou]

My variant guided rocket rules give a rocket-propelled projectile in space a maximum speed based on its Progress Level. It's not possible to move faster than a rocket unless your ship's is of higher PL than the rocket, and even then you can only outrun it with the Surge Forward full-round action. IMC it is a common tactic for starfighter-hunters to fire missiles at enemy flight leaders. That prevents the flight leader from participating in combat if they want to avoid the missile, as they must use their afterburners to attempt to outlast its fuel cells (I set this at 5 rounds for all missiles).

It's quite possible to fool both the computerized and human elements of guiding systems for both rockets and non-guided weaponry such as gauss guns and lasers. Crafty and/or highly reflexive pilots tend to have high Defense scores due to Fast levels and a high Dexterity. Even large ships are fairly maneuverable in d20 Future, as are Colossal monsters with a decent Dexterity. So, even if the starship takes up 36 squares on the tactical grid, it's booking through space at 7,000 ft. per round, in addition to making barrel rolls to bring its weapons to bear on different targets, dodge enemy attacks, and so on. This thread serves to correct the fact that the rules make it a little too insignificant of a size penalty for the behemoth ships. If a massive ship has a really good pilot, it shouldn't be an inevitability to hit it, but that pilot would be a lot better at dodging if they were piloting a smaller target

 

[Skrit]

If a massive ship has a really good pilot, it shouldn't be an inevitability to hit it, but that pilot would be a lot better at dodging if they were piloting a smaller target

I'd agree with that, but maybe in my mind I can't see something huge being maneuverable. You'd also have to think the bigger the ship the better the pilot too. They're (who ever owns the ship) isn't going to put Gomer Pile behind the wheel, they'll put Buck Rogers on the stick with a real Valuable or expansive ship. While Gomer can stick to flying the Freighters, and trash ships..


I'm also poor at physics (i'm a biology man) so it's hard for me to fugure stuff out suchs as, if the space shuttle orbits the earth at 17,000 mph and you shot a missle at it that travels a 5,000mph but you were traveling at 16,000mph could the missle catch it?? Maybe since nothing slows down in space unless it hits something, or wants too..

 

[FolcoTook]

Well, I'll throw my system's hat into the ring. I'm working on a variant of the d20 Future rules as an attempt to create a unified "vehicle" system for both combat and construction that will cover everything from cars to mechs to spaceships. It's all very beta, but here is the size chart I'm currently using:

Small: +1
Medium: 0
Large: -1
Huge: -2
Giant/Ultralight: -4
Colossal/Light: -8
Middleweight: -12
Heavy: -16
Superheavy: -20

The other wrinkle is that I'm applying a size rating to all vehicle mounted weapons as well and the size modifier for the attack roll is based on the weapon size while the size modifier to defense is based on the target size. This will allow the concept that a 20mm anti-aircraft gun on a battleship will have a better to-hit modifier vs. a fighter than the main battle guns.

FT

 

[genshou]

I've written up a description of each size category beyond Colossal using my interpretation of The Black Kestrel's idea for scaling:

I would suggest a scale system. Say the current scale of fine thru colossal (ending at 128 ft.) is x1.

Start the next scale at 128 ft to 256 ft (doubling following sizes) and call that x2 fine. Continue until you hit x2 Colossal. The penalty for hitting things smaller that your scale is -16 and you recieve a -16 to your defense. Continue until you have enough scales to make you happy. You may need to adjust the upper end of colossal in x1 scale to fit your needs (e.g. 256 ft. instead of 128 ft ft.)

Fine through Colossal becomes Fine I through Colossal I. Colossal I and Fine II are the same size category (the mathematics behind this is explained below).

Starships now have a scale category (I or II) as well as a size category. When a Scale II combatant attacks a Scale I target, they suffer a -16 penalty on their attack roll. When a Scale I combatant attacks a Scale II target, they gain a +16 bonus on their attack roll.

Colossal I targets have a -8 size penalty. Against Scale I targets, this remains as normal. Against Scale II targets, the +16 bonus effectively works out to a +8 size bonus. Fine II targets have a +8 size bonus. Against Scale II targets, this remains as normal. Against Scale I targets, the -16 penalty effectively works out to a -8 size penalty. As you can see, the two are identical, and thus Colossal n and Fine n+1 are always the same size category.

Diminituve II starships range from 128 feet to just under 250 feet. Diminutive II starships have a +4 size bonus and receive a +20 bonus on grapple checks. Two sample Ultralight ships, the Escort and Scout, fall under the Diminutive II category. All other sample Ultralight starships are the size category listed in the core rulebook.

Tiny II starships range from 250 feet to just under 500 feet. Tiny II starships have a +2 size bonus and receive a +24 bonus on grapple checks. All Light starships are in the Tiny II size.

Small II starships range from 500 feet to just under 1,000 feet. Small II starships have a +1 size bonus and receive a +28 bonus on grapple checks. All Mediumweight starships are in the Small II size.

Medium II starships range from 1,000 feet in length to just under 2,048 feet. Medium II starships have a no size modifier and receive a +32 bonus on grapple checks. All Heavy ships and any Superheavy ships which fit under the maximum length limitations are the Medium II size. Of the sample Superheavy ships, the Colony Ship and Star Freighter are Medium II.

Large II starships are 2,048 feet or more in length. Large II starships have a -1 size penalty and receive a +36 bonus on grapple checks. Superheavy ships of at least the minimum length, as well as space stations, orbital defense platforms, and celestial objects such as stars, planets, and moons all fall under the Large II category.

Alternatively, you could make the math easier by getting rid of the scale, changing all the larger sizes to Colossal [Number] and apply a flat bonus/penalty that remains fixed under all circumstances:

Fine through Colossal: Normal
Colossal II: Some Ultralight, -12 size
Colossal III: Light, -14 size
Colossal IV: Mediumweight, -15 size
Colossal V: Heavy & some Superheavy, -16 size
Colossal VI: Some Superheavy, stations, moons, and planets, -17 size

This screws with the "power of 2" scaling system that d20 System uses for proressively increasing size penalties, but if it works for your game, then use it.

Another idea I've come up with while rewriting the starship statistics using the above rules: Give each size above Colossal a further -4 to Defense, but this ends up giving a Dreadnought a -28 size penalty. Ouch. [Edit: just noticed that this is exactly what the post right above this one suggests. Oops. ]