Conclusions after three play tests

[D'karr]

Doesn't the wizard only roll once when using an AoE spell?

No, an AoE requires an attack roll for each target, one Damage Roll for ALL targets, and individual saves for persistent effects, if any.

 

[Blackbrrd]

I know the Fey step is an eladrin ability, and should probably have mentioned the other encounter power the ranger has, which doesn't suit a ranged character because he needs to be attacked before it comes into effect. So none of the two encounter powers helps the striker function of the ranger. Actually Fey step is probably much better on a fighter or rogue who wants to be up close and personal.

The ranger has an ability to give himself +4 to hit, I don't think it's that bad. (Also, +6 is only 1 point less than +7.)

Well, take the hobgoblin soldier, it has 20 ac and 16 reflex, so to start with, the rogue needs 9 to hit, while the ranger needs 14. The hobgoblin soldier can use phalanx soldier to get 22 ac, in which case the ranger needs a 16 to hit. The rogue will probably* have combat advantage against the hobgoblin soldier, so he would only need a 7 to hit, doing 1d4+4+2d6=13 damage. The ranger could use the ability to get +4 to hit, and would then need a 12 to hit, doing 1d10+1d8=11 damage. That is 2 less damage while needing 5 more to hit than the rogue!

The rogue is easier to target for the badguys than the ranger, since he is in melee, except for the fact that the fighter and paladin probably will have marked 1+ and 1 target respectively. A mob marked by the paladin would get 8 damage attacking the rogue instead of the paladin, while a mob marked by the fighter gets -2 to hit while attacking the rogue.

Btw, I didn't think the Fighter was a weak character, I just mentioned that two of his powers where quite situational (cleave and the encounter power). An at-will power that granted attack vs something else but AC but did less damage would probably have been interesting.

*The rogue need a Fighter to tag-team with for this to be true. Even if the opponent shifts so as to prevent giving the rogue combat advantage, this will give the fighter a free attack. So, either the fighter gets a free attack, or the rogue gets combat advantage. Its a win-win situation for the party anyway. Party synergy!

 

[MindWanderer]

It's easier to bring the pain with the Rogue, you go for as many attacks as possible and combat advantage, max out Dex, grab Acrobatics and try not to get mobbed.

Multiple attacks don't help the rogue. Sneak Attack is 1/round only. Also, my experience with the ranger at DDXP is that you have to work pretty hard to stay out of trouble (I went unconscious in 3 out of 5 fights in Scalegloom, and actually died in the Delve); the rogue is no less squishy and is a melee character besides.

Well I don't know what the 4e rules are, but in 3e you can't hide from an enemy who is observing you without an ability like hide in plain sight. Concealment is not enough unless it's full concealment.

One of the staff blogs mentioned that they were making good use of the Shadow Walk/Skill Training (Stealth) combo to hide in the middle of combat. So clearly it's easier in 4e than it was in 3e.

 

[Blackbrrd]

What were your Fighter and Paladin doing if not marking basically all the enemies so they would either take damage or have penalties attacking your ranger?

The last playtest I ran was with a ranger, fighter and paladin as mentioned, and the ranger wasn't threatened at all most of the time. Trying to get a ranged attack of when the fighter has closed to melee range with you is not a good idea.

 

[MindWanderer]

What were your Fighter and Paladin doing if not marking basically all the enemies so they would either take damage or have penalties attacking your ranger?

The last playtest I ran was with a ranger, fighter and paladin as mentioned, and the ranger wasn't threatened at all most of the time. Trying to get a ranged attack of when the fighter has closed to melee range with you is not a good idea.

You can only mark one enemy at a time, and the fighter can only do it in melee. That left a lot of bad guys able to attack me, especially the slingers and minions in hard-to-reach spots. The spaces were large enough that the two defenders just weren't able to lock down very many kobolds--and of course the dragon just hits everyone. As for the one death in the Delve, it was a boneshard skeleton that damaged the whole party, dropping me, when it was bloodied, and killed me when it died.

I've heard the words "glass cannon" used to describe the ranger in playtests other than my own, as well.

 

[The Little Raven]

I fully agree with this, also the fighter's at wills seemed pretty weak.

I think this is because of the fact that any successful attack by a fighter has the opportunity to apply the Marked condition, which makes any attack (power-based or not) able to inflict a penalty on an opponent on top of it's normal effects.

 

[Rechan]

I see nothing in the text of the fighter's Combat Challenge ability that suggests it can only mark one person at a time.

Only that a CREATURE can only have one mark (the most recent one).

 

[The Little Raven]

I see nothing in the text of the fighter's Combat Challenge ability that suggests it can only mark one person at a time.

Only that a CREATURE can only have one mark (the most recent one).

Indeed. We even had a blog post where a developer explicitly pointed out that this was the case, since he used a power to hit two creatures and marked both of them.

 

[FadedC]

One of the staff blogs mentioned that they were making good use of the Shadow Walk/Skill Training (Stealth) combo to hide in the middle of combat. So clearly it's easier in 4e than it was in 3e.

Perhaps, though he may have just done it the same way it would be possible in 3e.....first at the beginning of the fight and then any time he managed to run out of line of sight of any observers.

 

[Emirikol]

If AC still is the game-breaker in 4e that it was in 3e, perhaps my low-AC games will have interesting outcomes...

jh