Concordant Killer as a playable race/class

Ragmon

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Concordant Killer - MM4 - page 34

So the situation is that in our 3 man group (not including the DM) we have a guy who is playing a Concordant Killer (CK) using a Home-brew breakdown version of the monster.
Only after a few sessions did I look at what this guy was using...

1. What is your opinion on the version he is using: Link
- This i find to be broken/badly made, they guy did not even consider using outsider saves or skill points. Should such a home-brew be even remotely trusted to be used?
-The guy added abilities that the CK does not have in the MM4.
-Just compare it for your self, and you will see what I am getting at.

2. Should I just be an jerk and make a proper breakdown of the monster and just petition the group for the guy to use my version...after they have looked it I mean, and maybe added some changes.
 

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It really depends on what the other members of the group are playing and the campaign world, giving the monster new abilities isn't really a problem. As far as "broken" goes, it is only broken if it is overpowered compared to the group, if the group are all "unique" creatures then it isn't a problem
 

It really depends on what the other members of the group are playing and the campaign world, giving the monster new abilities isn't really a problem. As far as "broken" goes, it is only broken if it is overpowered compared to the group, if the group are all "unique" creatures then it isn't a problem


well yea I should have given more detail...
-We are level 9 ish
- We have little magical gear
- Gaining XP at a rapid tempo

1. Gnome Wizard/Sorcerer
2. Planetouched (Zenythri - MM2) Monk/Fighter

- And the CK has been wielding a +2 Holy, Unholy, Lawful, Chaos - Greatsword, since level 4.
- Has the ability to fly since level 6
- He has been large since level 8
- Level 9 teleport, wall of force, 3 times per day AND Arcane Sight is in a constant effect on him.
- OH and I love the fact that he can cast magic missile with caster level 10 at HD/level 1

On an average hit I deal 11 dmg, he heals 20+ and that is not counting the holy,unholy,law,chaos effects on the sword.

No really need nee advice what the hell should I do....I'm just lost, and mildly pissed off.
 



The Concordant Killer is a fascinating creature, mix of celestial and fiend, really neat fluff, And just plain awesome looking.
If you're saying your DM is new, tackling a homebrew breakdown of this creature must be tough. Good luck to you all.
I am not as gifted in assessing homebrew as some of my colleagues here, but here are my 2 cents.
The Force spell-like abilities do seem to be more powerful than one would expect from a class. In fact, everything in the breakdown appears to progress more powerfully than one would receive in a class. I'd be uncomfortable DMing such a PC.

I'll leave the discussion of balance to those who know better.
 

While I am philosophically opposed to making monster classes that sort-of-but-not-really duplicate the monster (if you're playing a CK, play one, not an almost-CK), the class isn't as unbalanced as it might appear. It looks like the player or DM are mistaken on a few points.

- And the CK has been wielding a +2 Holy, Unholy, Lawful, Chaos - Greatsword, since level 4.

He shouldn't have had that, exactly. Looking at the ability description, at 4th level, it's only a +1 weapon, and it deals +1d6 damage to NG, LN, CN, and NE people and +2d6 damage to LG, CG, LE, and CE people. It shouldn't have advanced to a +2 / 2d6 vs. neutrals / 4d6 vs. non-neutrals until last level, so if your group interpreted that as a +1 holy unholy axiomatic anarchic greatsword since level 4 he's been dealing too much damage.

- Has the ability to fly since level 6

Full casters first gain access to fly at 5th, and warlocks gain constant flight with fell flight at 6th level. That's not out of line power-wise.

- He has been large since level 8

You can get Powerful Build at level 1 with half-giant or goliath, and methods to grow larger (such as enlarge person) are available then too.

- Level 9 teleport, wall of force, 3 times per day AND Arcane Sight is in a constant effect on him.

3 teleports and 3 walls of force at 9th level is in line with what a full caster can do at about that level (a focused specialist could do that at 9th, a sorcerer at 10th). In fact, most of the SLAs are on-level compared to a full caster, but more limited in scope, with the lower-level ones increasing in frequency as you level.

- OH and I love the fact that he can cast magic missile with caster level 10 at HD/level 1

Not quite. The "no limit of missiles based on CL" means there's no cap, not that he casts at CL 10. He has 1 missile at level 1, 2 at level 3, etc. as normal, but he can keep gaining missiles as long as he wants after the cap would normally kick in.

So it seems that part of the issue here is misinterpreting the sword and MM damage for a while, and part of it is not realizing what a full caster can do at the same levels.

In fact, a cleric or archivist could be built to duplicate everything here (or at least mimic it pretty closely) at once except Know Enemy (which you can kinda do with Sense Motive or Urban Savant), Worthy Enemy (which you can kinda do with Mark of Cania), and Spoils of War (which you can kinda do with an artificer). So you could think of this as a set of ACFs for a cleric or archivist, and it would come out pretty much the same.

In fact, the imbalance looks like it's mostly coming from the other party members. A 9th level sorcerer/wizard, unless it's actually a wizard 4/sorcerer 1/ultimate magus 4, is far behind where he should be as a full caster at this level, and a monk/fighter is just underwhelming in general without a bunch of monk ACFs and a good PrC. This isn't to say that it's okay that he's playing this class in an unoptimized party--rather, it is his job as an optimizer and a good player to fit his character to the average party power level as best he can--but it's not the class itself that's overpowered, it's the contrast between it and the other two characters. In a party of this CK, wizard/PrC, and cleric/PrC, he'd fit right in.

So if I were you, I'd suggest to the DM that he make something a little more on par with the rest of the party, either by retiring this character and picking up a different, weaker monster class (I like hound archons and lumis for something that screams "outsider" but isn't too powerful) or by coming up with an in-game reason for his character to be de-powered and building a character that's thematically similar (a mystic ranger would be a good choice, since it has plenty of magical power and some combat power, but is much more limited than a cleric or wizard).
 

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