Confirmed: Magic items and summoned monster stats in PHB

[Rechan]

I personally don't even make my PCs track their ammunition or rations, so I can't imagine having to keep track of what the PC's items are, much less track their animals or summoned monsters.

As for "Equipping"... Look.

Any time a DM has said, "We're starting at level 5" (or whatever over level 1), you know what I had to do? 1) Go to the DMG and look up the point-buy mechanic. 2) Go to the DMG and look up the wealth-per-level so I know how much wealth I have to build the character. 3) Go the DMG and pick out the magical items my character has.

All that is being done is putting all that crap in the PHB, instead of the DMG.

I've always seen the pricetag on magical items not as an actual pricetag, so much as a level indication when you should get it. +2 weapon is affordable and not out of reason around level 8, etc.

Otherwise, in the game where my PC starts at level 5, I don't really see him walking into Joe's Magical Emporium and dropping 5,000gp to stock up on magical equipment right before he meets up with the other characters. Those are just items he got in his travels. It's no different, to me, than a mage picking the spells in his book up to the first session of the game.

Otherwise, I have to go through the character creation process, let the DM see my character sheet, and then ask, "Can you give me magical items now for my level?"

Is that what is preferred? Asking the GM what magical equipment you have before you even sit down at the table?

 

[Remathilis]

More to the point, I don't think ALL the magical items will be in the PH, just the "basic ones". By that, I mean those that are low-powered (everburning torches), practical (handy haversacks, journeybread) one shot (potions) and extremely commonplace (+X swords). All OTHER magical stuff will probably be in the DMG, like gloves of titan-strength, armbands of elusive action, ring of the fire archon, or boots of the mountain king.

So a new PC can gain access to the "big three" (cloak/amulet, weapon/implement, armor/robe) and disposable items (potions) or pratical magic (haversacks) without much fuss, but finding the cool boss new rare or interesting items requires the DM to place them in treasure piles guarded by horrible monsters and fiendish traps.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Rechan]

I'm astounded that people are used to running thier own familiars. What's the fun of that? Do you set there talking with yourself? Does your familiar never get into mischief? Does it never have a mind of its own?

Of course it does. That's actually part of the point. I get to do the mischief, as opposed to letting the DM have all the fun.

And yes, I talk to myself.

 

[RigaMortus2]

But my original issue was the player equipping his PC versus the DM equipping the PCs. That's the REASON for the magic items being in the PHB, and that reason is a problem for me. Do you see how, if the player is equipping his PC, he gets known, defined, non-mysterious items from the PHB, whereas if the DM equips the PCs, items can have hidden abilities?

I don't see that. Because a player can always read the DMG, so the abilities aren't going to be "hidden" for very long. And, regardless if they are in the DMG or PHB, the DM can make customized magic items that truly do have "hidden" abilities that the player doesn't know about. So that solves the problem either way.

You seem to be saying that, just because magic items are in the PHB, that automatically allows players to pick them as part of equipment regardless of what the DM says. Or, at the very least, expect them as part of treasure. I disagree. I am with the others that beleive, if they are in the PHB, they are merely there for easy referrence for the players. If the player seems them in the book and *expects* them to be part of the game, that is on the player (and perhaps the DM). It might be a good idea for the DM to let the players know up front if magic items in the PHB are going to be something that is commonplace. Just as the DM goes over all aspects of their campaign world (we have DMs already disallowing Tieflings and Dragonborn, and they will be just as Core as Magic Items).

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

This is true.

Unless, of course, one likes the PCs to not know that they have a +1 sword, even after three weeks and 20 combats. Why someone would like this, I really have no idea, but I'm sure there are some people who do.

Brad

I'm totally on board with you there. I can't stand keeping track of unidentified magic items. I have the choice of either stating the magic items don't work until you identify them (a la Diablo II), or I just make it easy to identify them. I went with the latter route.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Personally, I find this method to be tedious and totally un-fun. As the DM, I have so many things to remember already that having to remember to mentally add the magical enhancement of so-and-so PC's unidentified magic weapon is a real pain in the ass. Besides, just because the player hasn't noticed doesn't mean the PC hasn't either.

To each his own.

In a lower-magic world, such as mine, each magic item has more importance, and figuring it out is part of the fun and challenge of playing the game. Having played both ways, from either side of the screen, I know that I prefer the in-game verisimilitude of figuring things out to the DM-gimme of being told. I understand, though, that there are folks who feel that my "in-game verisimilitude" is a bore-fest, while my "DM-gimme" is a convenience.

(I just don't agree with them, and deep down suspect that they've never encountered a "good" version of in-game verisimilitude. Of course, it is always hard to determine what the objective truth is where one's deeply ingrained subjective values are involved. On either side of the equation. )

OTOH, I guess it would be fair to say that in your games choosing the learn the Identify spell is a poor choice indeed?

RC

 

[Rechan]

Okay, MacLaren, question for you.

Spells are in the PHB.

Do you feel that spells are somehow lacking in wonder? Or that being in the PHB, this limits the DM's ability to give the spells as treasure, in enemy spellcaster's spellbooks, or to restrict certain spells "Until you get them otherwise"*?

*I have found this is often the case with splatbook spells. DMs want to reduce the number they're picked, so that they can be treasure or special.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Okay, MacLaren, question for you.

Spells are in the PHB.

Do you feel that spells are somehow lacking in wonder? Or that being in the PHB, this limits the DM's ability to give the spells as treasure, in enemy spellcaster's spellbooks, or to restrict certain spells "Until you get them otherwise"*?

*I have found this is often the case with splatbook spells. DMs want to reduce the number they're picked, so that they can be treasure or special.

I don't know about BM, but I think that Monte's Arcana Evolved had a better system, and I like the idea of unique spells (and other secrets) that can be given as treasure.

RC

 

[Rechan]

I don't know about BM, but I think that Monte's Arcana Evolved had a better system, and I like the idea of unique spells (and other secrets) that can be given as treasure.

RC

As someone unfamiliar with AE, that really doesn't answer my question.

I feel that as a DM, I am well within my right to say, "You want to take Maximize Spell feat? Sorry, you have to go talk to the Cabal of the Scorched Mountain to learn the secrets of dragging all the destructive potential from your spells."

Anything, and I mean anything can be made special.

 

[Celebrim]

I personally don't even make my PCs track their ammunition or rations, so I can't imagine having to keep track of what the PC's items are, much less track their animals or summoned monsters.

We play and want to play in such different games that there is probably no possibility but that we'll talk right past each other.

If I set down as a player, I'm going to keep track of my ammunition and rations both because I'll assume its expected of me and because I want to. If I knew that there was this unspoken understanding that I had unlimited ammunition and rations, it would harm my enjoyment of the game.

Any time a DM has said, "We're starting at level 5" (or whatever over level 1), you know what I had to do? 1) Go to the DMG and look up the point-buy mechanic. 2) Go to the DMG and look up the wealth-per-level so I know how much wealth I have to build the character. 3) Go the DMG and pick out the magical items my character has.

That's what you had to do. For one shots, I've even encouraged that sort of thing myself. But that's far from the only or even best way to handle things.

In earlier editions of the games, there were various techniques for randomly generating magic items if you needed them. For example, 'Appendix P' of the 1st edition DMG. The implications of that method is that +2 magic items are rare before 10th level! When my DM ran us on 'Tomb of Horrors' as a one shot, he rolled up a bunch of random magic items while we were making characters and said, "Distribute this among yourselves."