Confirmed: Magic items and summoned monster stats in PHB

[Raven Crowking]

One of the essential jobs of a DM is to see to it that a players natural, understandable, and perhaps even necessary desire 'to win' doesn't in fact get in the way of thier enjoyment of the game. Most players recognize that peeking behind the DM's screen is not only unethical, but is also spoiling the game for themselves. They less often understand that this desire to understand everything as it happens and put labels and numbers on everything is part of the same unhealthy impulse as the temptation to read the DM's notes. So, your job as a DM includes making it hard for the players to rely on thier meta-knowledge rather than what they gleaned from in game by narrative or by application of a knowledge skill.

Well put, Sir.

This is, unfortunately, one of the areas of DMing that is often overlooked, and almost never addressed in books on the art (such as the DMG).

In my case, this means that virtually every monster or magic item is either difficult to identify or else completely out of my own head. They'll find out where mewlips come from in due time. That sort of campaign secret is not one I want spoiled because finding out in game is so much more compelling than if I simply told you where they come from. They'll find out about crag fiends, the secret lives of griffins, what a gnome is, what a crypt knight is, what the spawn of ugopoth are, who the crypt children are, what an air elemental really looks like, and so forth by experience, and not from a stat block. And its more fun for everyone this way, because you never have the same sense of wonder reading a stat block that you have finding out things in a story.

I like the cut of your jib, newsletter, etc.



RC

 

[Caliban]

Brother MacLaren: Your way is not the only way to play D&D. What is fun for you is not fun for everyone.

Personally:

As a DM, I really don't want to be in charge of tracking what all the PC's magic items and summoned monsters do, as well what all my NPC's and their equipment does.

As a player, I really don't find it more fun to be left in an information vacuum and dependent on the DM's good will and memory when I try to use one of my items in combat. I wan't be in control of my character and his actions, and part of that is knowing (within reason) what my gear does and what my summoned critters (if any) are capable of.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

This. Why take on extra work when you don't have to?

It's not for me about managing details, but about making judgment calls. 3E is explicitly LESS encouraging of DM judgment calls. I think that in the short term this makes it easier for a wider range of people to DM, but in the long term it reduces the emphasis on the necessary skills to make a game run well. Monte Cook said it better than I did.

"The designers of the newest edition built so much reliance on rules right into the game, to make it easier to play. As one of those designers, I occasionally think to myself, 'What have we wrought?' " -Monte Cook

" If the DM has to make a lot of judgment calls, the game is more difficult to learn. However, it's my belief that it's also more satisfying." -Monte Cook

"Don't let rules replace good DMing skills"- Monte Cook

Brother MacLaren: Your way is not the only way to play D&D. What is fun for you is not fun for everyone.

Really? Thanks.

I do hope that Doug McCrae's observation is correct and that 4E will increase the sense of wonder by keeping most monsters' abilities more mysterious.

 

[Caliban]

Really? Thanks.

You're welcome. Monte Cook's style isn't the be-all end-all of good gaming either.

 

[Set]

Originally Posted by Brother MacLaren
I despise the entire idea of PCs buying magic items -- whether I am a player or a DM. It kills the wonder. It makes them too commonplace. It doesn't fit with the legends and stories I know. It has always been the thing I've hated the most about 3E. As a player, I enjoy making do with what is found or won or given.

Depends on the legends and stories you refer to. Elric of Melnibone had a magic sword and a magic ring and brewed up some potions on occasion. Frodo Baggins carted around a mithril shirt, magic orcbane shortsword, rope of climbing, phial of elven starlight, cloak of elvenkind and food that never ran out. Oh. And some ring.

The newer generation of gamer is used to having a pair of magic earrings, a magic helm, magic necklace, magic cloak, magic bracers, two magic rings, magic sleeves, magic shoulderpads, a magic tunic/robe/breastplate, magic belt, magic pants ("Are those magic pants? 'Cause your @$$ is enchanting!"), magic boots, etc. Whether or not it fits the genre of, say, Conan, who generally avoided anything that stank of magic, it's part of the genre now.

As long as the game system requires weapon feats, for instance, 'making do' is simply not an option for fun gameplay. If I weapon specialized in Dwarven Spiked Double-Hafted Petard-Hoister, I'm not particularly interested in 'making do' with those +2 Nunchaku the DM randomly rolled up, just as Merry and Pippin got their hands on magical *short swords* and didn't have to 'make do' with an interesting selection of magical polearms.

 

[pukunui]

RE: Magic Items in the PHB. I really don't have a problem with this at all. In fact, I fail to see how it will impact on my ability as a DM to maintain the "mystery" that is unidentified magic items. Just because the items are there at the players' finger tips doesn't mean I, as the DM, can't continue to give them unidentified magic items that they have to figure out. Judging from what some people have said, it sounds like they're expecting to have to say to the players, "OK, you've found a +2 mace of poison, look at page 225 in your PHB for the details." You can still maintain your players' sense of wonder by simply not telling them what they've found ... but by having the magic items in the PHB, it'll make it easier for players to look up the abilities of the items they have identified and it'll also make it easier to create PCs above 1st level.

 

[rkanodia]

I hope the don't dare exclude the summoned Fiendish Dire Aardvark, the summoned Axiomatic Dire Aardvark and the summoned Anarchic Dire Aardvark!

Presumably, the Anarchic Dire Aardvark will have Craft (Letterbomb) instead.

 

[LostSoul]

One of the essential jobs of a DM is to see to it that a players natural, understandable, and perhaps even necessary desire 'to win' doesn't in fact get in the way of thier enjoyment of the game.

I prefer to treat players differently. If they want to look behind the screen, I assume that they enjoy doing it, that they know better what they enjoy from the game, and I don't try to stop them. Maybe I'd start a conversation to get on the same page, but that's it.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Depends on the legends and stories you refer to. Elric of Melnibone had a magic sword and a magic ring and brewed up some potions on occasion. Frodo Baggins carted around a mithril shirt, magic orcbane shortsword, rope of climbing, phial of elven starlight, cloak of elvenkind and food that never ran out. Oh. And some ring.

LOTR corrections:

There is no evidence that the mithril shirt was magical. Sting was a long dagger, not a shortsword (according to The Hobbit, at least) that served as a sword for one of Bilbo's/Frodo's size. Frodo didn't have a rope of climbing, as it had to be fastened normally to function -- the knot simply could be undone at will. The Phial of Galadrial is correct, as is the cloak of elvenkind, but Frodo's food certainly could run out....and did, it was explicit that Sam and Frodo didn't have enough food to journey back from Mordor.


RC

 

[JohnSnow]

Excellent point.

And with the more efficient stat write-up, how much space do you really need to present a summoned monster's stats? Or a mount's? Wouldn't a Warhorse's write-up look something like:

Warhorse Level 8 Brute
Cost 400 G.P.
Large natural quadruped (animal)
Initiative +9 Senses Perception +4; low-light vision
HP 80; Bloodied 40
AC 17 (unarmored); Fortitude 17, Reflex 15, Will 14
Speed 12
Melee Kick (standard; at-will)
+9 vs. AC; 1d10 + 9 damage.
Melee Trample (full-round; at-will)
+9 vs. Ref; 2d10 + 9 damage and the target is knocked prone.
Alignment Unaligned
Skills Athletics +14, Initiative +9
Str 20 (+9) Dex 12 (+5) Wis 10 (+4) Con 16 (+7) Int 2 (-2) Cha 10 (+4)

That's pretty short. And it could probably be made shorter. With proper formatting, that's hardly longer than many Third Edition spell descriptions. It hardly takes up more room than the description for, say, prismatic spray.