Conflicting feats question

[NuSair]

So the scenario you have is that two characters have Robilar's, but one has Sidestep, so the following situation would go:

Character A makes a normal attack against Character B (hereafter just A and B for brevity). B can make an AoO once A's attack is resolved. At this point, A could make its own AoO, and B could use Sidestep.

Is that the scenario you're describing? If so, there pretty much won't be official rules on that because it's such an esoteric rules interaction. The thing I think would be most reasonable is the character with Sidestep could use the 5FS before the opponent's AoO because the character is prepping for such a thing thanks to the training of having those feats in the first place. One might envision making the AoO and taking the 5FS as a fluid movement of an attack going into the 5FS.


Incidentally, a 20th level character can't take epic feats. As the epic feat rules state:

"At 21st level, and every three levels thereafter, the character may select an epic feat in place of a nonepic feat."

After all, a character isn't considered epic yet until it has 21 or more character levels.

Right, there is one character who is 21, three who are 20 and one who is 19 (a cleric who doesn't mind spending XP for spells).

Yeah, that is generally the situation.

Characters A and B both have Robilar's and Character B has Sidestep.

A attacks B, generating an AoO.
B attacks A, triggering A's Robilar's and his Sidestep.
Does his Stepstep allow him to 5FS before A's AoO? That is what I am trying to decide.

 

[nijineko]

the final AoO in the chain has to be resolved before the movement can take place. then the movement takes place as part of their AoO. As the rest of the AoOs might be cancelled, i suggest that you describe it as a slashing flurry of disengaging parries, one of which may connect (depending on the result of the final AoO).

"simple and easy" banning is a lame answer. that's like saying, "oh, there are too many chess pieces on the board for me to really understand how to play. let's just throw away half the pieces so the game is brought down to my level."

having said that, there is also a category of people who after reasoned consideration and playtesting conclude that the rule adds complexity that detracts from the game, rather than makes the game more enjoyable, and looks for a way to adjust.

you pick which side you fall into. ^^

 

[NuSair]

Yeah, I disagree with the idea that the AoO has to take place before the movement. It seems to contradict exactly what is in the feat description.

The AoO granted by Robilar's Gambit is not a normal AoO. It is an attack of opportunity, but unlike other AoO, it doesn't interrupt the action. By the text of the feat it tells you when to resolve it. After the current attack has finished resolving. Sidestep has that same text. The AoO doesn't get preferred treatment because it's an AoO. It lost that special interrupt ability by the text saying, wait until the attack resolves, then AoO.

When you remove the interrupt factor, an AoO is really just a regular melee attack.

Anyway- this is how I have decided to handle it, I thought since I started the thread here, I would come back and let y'all know how I decided to handle it.

Basically, whoever has the highest Dexterity mod will be the one to get their action in. It fits with initiative and how to handle ties in initiative.

Hank is attacking Eric. They both have Robilar's Gambit and Eric also has Sidestep.
1. Hank attacks Eric, triggering RG.
2. Hank resolves his attack on Eric.
3. Eric takes his AoO on Hank, triggering Hank's RG.
4. Eric resolves his attack on Hank. Triggering his Sidestep.
5. There are now 2 outstanding actions waiting to resolve, that both go at the same time.
5a. Eric has a higher dex bonus than Hank, so he proceeds to take a 5 foot step and Hank's AoO fails unless he is still in reach.
5b. Hank has a higher dex bonus than Eric, so he gets in his AoO, then Eric can decide if he's taking his 5 foot step or not.

I appreciate all the discussion and ideas.

 

[delericho]

The relevant rules text:

Robilar's Gambit:

At the start of your action, you can adopt a fighting stance that exposes you to harm but allows you to take advantage of your opponents' exposed defenses as they reach in to attack you. Anyone who strikes at you gains a +4 bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls against you. In return, they provoke attacks of opportunity from you each time they swing. Resolve your attack of opportunity after your foe's attack.

Sidestep:

Once per round, when you make an attack of opportunity, you may take a 5- foot step after you attack. This 5-foot step doesn't count against your limit of one 5-foot step per round or against any movement you take on your turn.

So, from this, the way I see this working is as follows:

Character R has the Robilar's Gambit feat, and is using it.

Character S has the Sidestep feat.

Character R does something to provoke an AoO.

Character S takes his attack of opportunity.

As a consequence of Robilar's Gambit, character R now makes an AoO. Unlike normal attacks of opportunity this happens after the attack that provoked it.

Finally, character S may make his 5-foot step.

My justification for this is that that way everyone gets the full benefit of their feats - character R gets his AoO and character S gets his five-foot step. Doing things the other way around disadvantages character R (who misses out on his AoO), which is a less fair outcome.