confused about flat-footed

[0-hr]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: confused about flat-footed

IMO, the description of "flat-footed" pretty clearly favors the initiative (versus action) interpretation.

IMC, if characters are aware of their surroundings (e.g., still conscious) when their initiative comes up, they're no longer flat-footed.

I (and I'm betting most of the gaming world) agree with your interpretation.

Now Hyper's supposition that you can delay while stunned, that's another matter entirely...

 

[Berk]

IMC, if characters are aware of their surroundings (e.g., still conscious) when their initiative comes up, they're no longer flat-footed.

This all depends on how you interpret different conditions. Take stun since it's been used in this thread so far already. When stunned you can't take any actions. Not even mental ones. If you can't take a mental action then how would you know about your surroundings? That's how I interpret stun anyway since it allows you to take no actions what so ever. A psion can't manifest powers while stunned and that is just a purely mental action.

 

[Berk]

MUST... NOT... FLAME...
MUST... CONTROL... IMPULSES...
MERCY... IS... GOOD...
MUST... NOT... FLAME...

Argh!

-AK

I wasn't flaming or anything. I was just stating as to how so many people complain about how they have worded stuff that you can't just say, "Well if they meant action then they woulda used to word action." That arguement just holds no water when so many people complain about the wording of rules.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That's how I interpret stun anyway since it allows you to take no actions what so ever. A psion can't manifest powers while stunned and that is just a purely mental action.

"Action" is a defined term. Manifesting a power is a Standard Action... that's why you can't do it when stunned.

Thinking to yourself "Oh, man, I got stunned!" is Not An Action - you can do that while stunned.

Shouting out "Oh, man, I got stunned!" is a Free Action - you can't do it while stunned.

Now Hyper's supposition that you can delay while stunned, that's another matter entirely...

The stunned condition prevents a character from taking any actions. It doesn't skip his turn in the initiative order.

What sort of action is Delay? SRD says : "Not an Action". I submit, therefore, that it is one of the few things you can do while stunned.

-Hyp.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

What sort of action is Delay? SRD says : "Not an Action". I submit, therefore, that it is one of the few things you can do while stunned.

Although the only thing you might accomplish is lowering your initiative for the remainder of the encounter.

 

[Berk]

"Action" is a defined term. Manifesting a power is a Standard Action... that's why you can't do it when stunned.

Thinking to yourself "Oh, man, I got stunned!" is Not An Action - you can do that while stunned.

Shouting out "Oh, man, I got stunned!" is a Free Action - you can't do it while stunned.

Like I said, it all depends on your interpritation.

The stunned condition prevents a character from taking any actions. It doesn't skip his turn in the initiative order.

What sort of action is Delay? SRD says : "Not an Action". I submit, therefore, that it is one of the few things you can do while stunned.

-Hyp.

Page 121 of the PHB defines Not an Action as part of taking an action. So if you Delay you can Delay to do nothing, since delay is part of some other action, which you can't take since you are stunned.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: confused about flat-footed

Okay, I see where you're coming from. It looks like you consider a "turn" to be roughly analogous to an "action". Not an unreasonable interpretation, I suppose.

Not quite. I have never had this come up in a game, so I was just trying to interact with the rules to see if they would allow my interpretation, and to see what others might say. It makes sense to me to say that the cleric in question is still flat-footed until he acts, but I do not believe the rules explicitly provide for this exception. I agree that the word "turn" makes my interpretation less likely. Good conversation so far, though.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Page 121 of the PHB defines Not an Action as part of taking an action. So if you Delay you can Delay to do nothing, since delay is part of some other action, which you can't take since you are stunned.

Ah.

Without my PHB at work, I'll take your word for it, and retract my contention that one may Delay while stunned.

That doesn't affect my position, however, that even while stunned, once one's first turn in the initiative order has come up, one is no longer flat-footed.

-Hyp.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

About the stunning issue there is something found in (or about?) D20 Modern - In a question regarding unarmed combat Charles Ryan stated that someone who was dazed through the unarmed attacks would still be considered flat footed if he hadn`t act yet, so that using the special unarmed maneuvers (Knockdown, Improved Knockdown and so on) that need the flat footed state would be usable again in the next round.

This is, however, not really clear in the wording of the D&D Core Rulebooks, maybe D20 Modern does state this better (I do not have the passage handy).

Well, if you are willing to use this rule for Standard D&D, I think being stunned should be ruled the same, since it does, as daze, disallow you to act. (And it otherwise even "worse")

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Darklone]

Just one question, guys... why do you care if someone is still flatfooted while he is stunned? Did I get that correct, example:
- bad guy has init 16, stuns good guy
- good guy with init 14 takes no action
- next round good guy is stunned e.g. till init 16 and the question is could he react to something at init 15 or not?