Congrats to Changeling!

Changeling was the only one of the old WoD 'core' books I didn't have; on the surface it just ddin't appeal to me, even as reading/inspiration material. I'll have to let Crothian have 5 minutes at GenCon to try and persuade me.
 

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In old Mage we'd get into arguments about Sphere's and successes needed to pull off an effect. That doesn't happen near as often IME with the new Mage.

When you go from encouraging a more freeform magic system where many paths can meet in the middle to create the same effect to a system that discourages freeform magic and has a lot more one-true-waysim to achieve an effect, of course you'll have less arguments ;) I always explained to people how if they wanted to have a character that was more directed toward certain spheres that you could still create similar effects w/X sphere while maybe having a slightly higher level of Y sphere, and maybe a bit of Z if possible.

I also like the new setting better... you don't have the Ascension War forced on you. The game is wide open for the Storytellers to do what they want with it. No Nephandi, Marauders, or Technocracy as the built in boogeyman. ANYONE could be your enemy. :devil:

The constantly encroaching metaplots of White Wolf games do get old, but setting is pretty easy to ditch. I can't stand the story behind magic in the new game. heck, IRL I enjoy discussions about Atlantis and such, but it was SO cliche to reach out and peg Atlantis as the source of magic and such. The metaphysical ladders and such were even worse. Nephandi, Marauders and the Technocracy were built in boogeymen but at least they were INTERESTING (for me) ;)
 

Wow, thanks for all the kind words! It meant a lot to us to find out it got no fewer than four nominations for the core book alone (and holy crap, nominations for the quick-start and Fear-Maker's Promise to boot!).

One of the hurdles we had to overcome when we were working on the game was a touch of "conventional wisdom" that something marked "Changeling" wouldn't be much of a success. We did our best to prove them wrong, and we're tremendously grateful that everyone's been so supportive and enthusiastic about the game.

I'm particularly happy to hear from fans of the Dreaming that have also developed some love for Lost. I kind of expected something like the inevitable Mage flamewars, as we were going in a very different direction, but I'm pleased that there are so many folks who are fond of both, just as we do.

I'll probably still be grinning come GenCon. There's a lot of very deserving competition, and being in good company like that is a powerful compliment. Thanks again for the generous praise!
 

It's no surprise the new World of Darkness, especially Changeling is so popular. I'm in a Changeling game now and I must admit the "power economy" is far more compelling than any oWoD game. Characters must reap their glamour through the interaction with mortals and strong emotions. They're psychic vampires. The necessity to interact with mortals is an interesting twist. It's a humbling aspect to the power the characters have gained. They cannot simply fly about like superheroes and save the world. They cannot gain this impossible celebrity status and shun the mortal world because they're now teh ubernatural kewlz. This necessary interaction, along with the curse of immortality that increases along with your power, creates a strong narrative element both mechanical, and ever present that was missing from oWoD.

The nWoD is vastly superior to the oWoD in many ways:
1) The world structure is no longer simple black and white. In oWoD there was one organization that was clearly in charge, making the societal structure boring and monolithic. The entire reason for the Sabbat to exist was because there was only the Camarilla. There is no low-brow good guy vs bad guy. The Black Spiral Dancers are gone. The idea that PC's are good guys is so grade school. The nWoD creates societies and situations that defy simple black and white and force players to consider ideological considerations. Mages = Good, Men in Black, Iteration X = Bad. Get of Fenris, Bone Gnawers, etc = Good, while Black Spiral Dancers = Bad. Old World of Darkness uses the "Axis of Evil" mentality when determining morality.
2) Character Power is no longer monolithic. In oWoD there was only a single way for Vampires to gain power. This railroaded the vampire mythos into a single Judeo-Christian origin. Now it's no longer the case. Vampires are a mystery to vampires. You don't have to believe in the bible to come to terms with vampire mythos. Furthermore, since power is no longer monolithic it allows non-linear storylines to develop. There is no Camarilla/Generational requirements for PC's to follow. A PC can be a Prince with a Blood Potency of 1. This was impossible in oWoD because elder vampire presence was ubiquitous and the only way to gain power was Diablerie. Now players and ST have options.
3) All character powers are tied to narrative elements. In oWoD you could use blood in a blood bank - boooooorrrriiiiiinnnnng. This pseudo-scientific explanation is the midichlorians of STS. Players didn't have to play their character. There was no curse in oWoD. The more powerful you became through the monolithic, all-important Generation, the more powerful your character. There was no curse. There was no risk vs reward. Now characters that grow in power must contend with the innate, mechanical and narrative consequences that are intentionally designed to mitigate the supernatural forces they're wielding. The oWoD vampires just grew teh uber kewl goth. There's no curse in oWoD. Old Mages were just a horde of impossible dice pools. Old Werewolves spent all day in Crinos tossing busses around like a furry superhero. There was no inherent curse to tend with. No interesting story tied to the corruption of power that came with the gift.

Cheers for the new!
 

When you go from encouraging a more freeform magic system where many paths can meet in the middle to create the same effect to a system that discourages freeform magic and has a lot more one-true-waysim to achieve an effect, of course you'll have less arguments ;) I always explained to people how if they wanted to have a character that was more directed toward certain spheres that you could still create similar effects w/X sphere while maybe having a slightly higher level of Y sphere, and maybe a bit of Z if possible.
Your houseruling only suggests that it's a flawed system. If you go outside of the intended system that doesn't mean it's freeform. You making it freeform by bending the rules does not make the rules system flexible. The arguments came from a poorly designed, inherently flawed system. The floating difficulty was the most important factor, not the dice pools. Just lower the difficulty, spend a willpower, and you'll succeed. A character with 20 dice and a mediocre difficulty will lose to a character with 5 dice and difficulty 2. That means a character that is designed to lower Difficulty levels, although a lower Arete, is more powerful/effective than a character than cannot lower difficulty and has a higher Arete. It runs counter to the fluff and intentional design of the system.

The arguments came from the poorly conceived sphere system. Call it freeform all you want but it's a plain and simple fact the spheres were not balanced. The range of abilities available to a given sphere varied greatly. It's evident by your houserules. You're giving players effects that were not covered by the system. This is a testement to the failings of that system, not its strengths. Take away your house rules and it's no longer free form. The damage of each sphere wasn't tempered against the possible range of effects. There was no quality control as to determine why Forces had more damage AND more effects than the other spheres.

The new system offers better guidlines for balance. I ran a MtA campaign for two-and-a-half years and there are several glaring problems with the oWoD.
1) There is no system of unity. Mages do not have any incentive to work together. It's very easy for Mages to gain individual power and not have a reason to stay in the group. Mechanically, the system supported individual power over group dynamics. In the new system the Rotes, Spells, Items, Cabal casting, extended Cabal casting, all point toward the necessity of group dynamics.
2) Some Spheres are more equal than others. It was clear right off the bat than MtA required houserules. Some characters flat out sucked. They couldn't achieve a modicum of success compared to other characters. In my nWoD campaign the biggest problem players have is "every Arcanum is so good I want them all." That's a huge difference. Players that would previously use the same sphere time and again are now building characters on schtick alone because they know everyone is useful. Better game means reliable player choices. The players now know that whatever they choose it will work as intended. And nobody has to house rule it ;)
3) The price of power. In oWoD characters would simply become powerful - that's it. I'm powerful, teh uber kewl weezard!. Players could grow tired of their ties with other characters. There was no mechanical reason for players to have their characters form a union at higher levels. Now the curse of Auras demands that players continue to work together. The footprint left by an Archmage needs a cabal to erase it. As players grow in power so does their paradox. In oWoD Paradox only occurred when you failed. Reference the floating difficulty number. Lower your difficulty and no paradox. In nWoD paradox increases as power increases. Essentially, your presence is a disturbance to the Fallen World. Unlike oWoD, there is a mechanical and narrative price for power that demands group dynamics. Last time I checked, RPG's are a cooperative game. The increase in mechanical elements that drive narrative elements means a better Roleplaying game.


The constantly encroaching metaplots of White Wolf games do get old, but setting is pretty easy to ditch. I can't stand the story behind magic in the new game. heck, IRL I enjoy discussions about Atlantis and such, but it was SO cliche to reach out and peg Atlantis as the source of magic and such. The metaphysical ladders and such were even worse. Nephandi, Marauders and the Technocracy were built in boogeymen but at least they were INTERESTING (for me) ;)
Is it really cliche to peg Atlantis as a source of magic? For starters, Atlantis is not the source of magic. You are wrong. The Supernal World is the source of magic. Atlantis was the mythical nation of Wizards. Mythical because in the nWoD game many wizards consider it as metaphor for hubris and an allegory for the price of power, not an actual place. Furthermore, name 20 other game systems that use Atlantis as metaphor for hubris and an allegory for the price of power. In order to qualify as a cliche` there must be gross overuse. You cannot name one.
 

Yes, congratulations to WW for their success. I recently downed the money for their six core books, and wow. Excellence all around. Changeling is no Promethean in terms of quality, but it's arguably the best roleplaying product of 2007, and certainly deserves the recognition.
 

Yes, congratulations to WW for their success. I recently downed the money for their six core books, and wow. Excellence all around. Changeling is no Promethean in terms of quality, but it's arguably the best roleplaying product of 2007, and certainly deserves the recognition.
I'm a HUGE Promethean fan. Our group switched to Changling to give it a try but I'm sold on Promethean. I've been trying to open up another game night so we can do both (or alternate *shrug*). Promethean is simply amazing.

The mortality and redemption is the most ingenious mechanical narrative in any game. Two of the players are ready for the Chrysalis (myself included). However, I've delayed my own because my progeny (and myself) would be vulnerable to the enemies we've made along the pilgrimage. It these aspects of the game that give it the depth and challenge the players unlike any other game.
 

Yes, agreed all around. My biggest 'regret' (if you can call it that) is that I'll likely never get to play the game (I'm the only one I know that has it, and my city isn't exactly bristling with possibility), and it's the one game I own that I'm honest-to-goodness afraid to run. I need to pick up more of the expansions, though. Just one more thing on my long list of stuff to buy.
 

Yes, agreed all around. My biggest 'regret' (if you can call it that) is that I'll likely never get to play the game (I'm the only one I know that has it, and my city isn't exactly bristling with possibility), and it's the one game I own that I'm honest-to-goodness afraid to run. I need to pick up more of the expansions, though. Just one more thing on my long list of stuff to buy.
I feel for you :.-(

It's such a good game. You can run it. Promethean is best with 3-4 players because it's all character development. That's the best thing about it. Players are required to really get into character so as a ST you can indulge that. Find a small group of serious role players and ask them if they want a challenge. It's the easiest way to hook em ;)

Honestly, recruiting for "B-List" games is very hard. Promethean is definitely top-notch but it's like Fight Club was - a cult following that has a mainstream audience yet to be discovered. Try posting in game stores and online to build a new group. Really, that's the easiest way to start. Other than that you'll have to start new players on the game. Don't disparage. People are natural imagineers. They're just rusty since childhood. WoD is a great system for character driven stories. It's more natural than a fight-n-loot game.

If you want to ST you should familiarize yourself with the genre. The recommended reading list is a good start. I recommend Dean Koontz's Frankenstein. It's not heady stuff like Shelley but it's contemporary, making it a little more accessible.
 

Heh, actually, I loved Shelly's Frankenstein, accessible or not. One of the biggest things that draw me to Promethean is how well it emulates the feel of the novel. But I'll try to pick up Koontz's piece as well, if it does the original justice.
 

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