D&D 3E/3.5 Considering 4e, coming back after a long time away from v3.5

[Kealios]

I bought 4e books when they were first released; as such, I have PHB 1, DM 1, and MM 1. I havent ever actually played 4th ed.

Getting slightly tired of v3.5, and wanting something new, I picked my 4th ed books up again, read them, then went to my FLGS to have a chat with the guys and gals about what I was going to need.

Turns out, PHB1 was so errata'd as to make it nearly non-useful? This is one reason they released the Essentials books? Is this true?

OK, so I need to buy the Essentials book...this will get me the errata for combat and the classes right? But isnt Essentials like dumbed-down (maybe you prefer the term "simplified") 4e? Wouldnt this book not be used in my regular 4e games if we werent playing "Essentials"?

So let's say my assumptions are correct: I need to get the basic Essentials Rules Compendium to get playing and convince my friends to join. I need PHB 2 at least for the rest of the basic classes and races from v3.5. Am I good to go now?

Last question (thanks for bearing with me): Item creation. Does it exist anymore? Not just wands and scrolls, but Wondrous Items? I ask because I am running a Crystalmancer of sorts (using all sorts of supplements found on RPGnow.com, including the EN Publishing class), and want to somewhat replicate it in 4e, but this includes crafting gem trinkets and making scrolls using gems. Nothing like this seems to exist in 4e. Ive seen no crafting skills, no professions...do I just not have the right books, or have these truly been stripped from the game? Im a little mindblown, I will admit...

Thanks for your advice and help!
Kealios

 

[UngainlyTitan]

My view is that 4e is perfectly playable out of the original books. Most of the errata is only stuff you would notice if the unerrarted version is bothering you or if your are playing organised play.
So my advice is, ignore the errata to begin with and play with the material you have. If a particular feat or power is a problem then look it up in the errata.

If you find that you are using a lot of errata lookups then pick up a copy of the Rules Compendium. If you like 4e and want to continue with it after that pick up a DDI subscription. Only buy the books that you will use.

By the way Essential will not get you the errata for the classes in the older books. The rules Compendium will have errata for basic rules and all the skills.

Item creation is ritual based. I believe the relevant rtiuals are in the PHB1.
The really powerful 3.5 stuff are now artifacts, which can come as go as they please. Do not be afraid ti create your own rituals.
You may want ot play around with ritual costing and casting time to encourage use. Poke around the forums, people have come up with different takes on but unfortunately Wizards have not really come up with much support for ritual use.

On a final note DDI may be more cost effective way of getting erratted classes using the character builder than buying all the books.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I second that the PHB classes play perfectly fine straight from the book. There are a few corner cases that are abusive, but most of those are only abusive with material from other books.

PHBII is an excellent book with a lot of standard classes and races from 3.x

As far as essentials, you do not need it to play, but I would recommend the Monster Vault, as it has a lot of the basic and traditional monsters with the correct math (better than MMI)

Other than that, you are probably good to go even with the basic three. There are quite a few free modules and such out there you can try out also.

Good Luck.

I play both 3.x and 4E and love both games, but for a slightly different style of game.

 

[cavalier973]

I don't remember the "quick fix" to get the core books up to speed, but it's something like subtract 5 or 6 points from the DC table, skill challenges are a flat 3 failures vs the number of successes needed for the challenge level.

Halve the monster's hit points and double the bonus to damage (or something like that).


I actually prefer the Essentials line to the core rules--there is less to keep track of, the martial classes are more basic (both fighters and thieves do melee/missile basic attacks only, but adjust the attack rolls and/or damage rolls based on power options. Fighters use "stances" and thieves use "tricks").

To build magic items, pick an item from the player's handbook, and set it up as a skill challenge. For example, to forge a magic sword might require primary skills of Athletics and/or Endurance (to beat the metal) and Arcana (to infuse the weapon with magical powers); throw in Nature, perhaps, to create a flame blade. If it's a "+1 sword", then the skill challenge might be easy or medium in difficulty, while a more powerful sword would be a difficult challenge. You could even make it a series of challenges: the first would be to acquire the "recipe" by discovering, learning, or stealing the smithing secrets of a local dwarf clan. The second challenge would be to acquire the necessary components, while the third challenge would be the actual forging.

 

[Truename]

I'll second the recommendation to just subscribe to DDI. It's cheap and has all the crunch ever made. You can subscribe for just a month or two, play a few games, and see if 4e is your cup of tea.

Alternatively, if you want to stick with the books you have, WotC republished most of the classes in PH1 for free, with all errata built in, as the "Class Compendium" series. You can find them here:

Fighter: Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (The Fighter (Weaponmaster))

Cleric: Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (The Cleric (Templar))

Wizard: Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Arcanist Wizard)

Rogue: Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Scoundrel Rogue)

Warlord: Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (The Warlord)

Finally, about the Essentials line: it's the same game as regular 4e, but with new class options in the books. It's not dumbed-down at all, but there is a wider range of complexity in the classes. The original 4e classes all read the same, although they play differently; the Essentials classes have a lot more variety, from the Slayer (just hit it with your axe) to the Mage (more complex than the PH1 wizard).

Personally, I think the Essentials design is excellent, although not everyone agrees. Regardless, all the classes are compatible regardless of which book they came from; my game has an Eberron Artificer, PH1 Warlock, PH2 Barbarian, PH2 Druid, and Essentials Knight all playing together, and it works great.

 

[Rechan]

Are you going to be a Player or a DM? That'll change things a little.

Not a whole lot was changed in terms of the classess themselves. Some powers were nerfed or beefed up, etc. The stealth rules were changed (that errata is in PHBII). Btw, they post the errata for free online. Chances are that most of the errata won't apply to you since you'd be playing one class?

IMO the problem with the 4e PHB1 is that the wizard's at-wills, and some of the encounters, are just subpar compared to later controllers. Newer at-wills released for the wizard has made them quite competent. But out of the box, the Essentials wizard is stronger and imo better (although you don't get ritual casting for free).

The classes in Essentials are simplified yes, but also address some criticisms of 4e. For instance, the Martial classes have their base attack modified by stances, and their encounter powers just beef up a confirmed hit. This gives them a more "Traditional" feel. The Fighter and Paladin's marks change to an aura 1 that subjects all to -2, and any who violate the 'don't include the defender" get punished.

Also races get some updates; basically alternative racial powers (the half-elf for instance), and now all races except humans one fixed racial bonus, and one bonus that can be one of two things (for instance, Tieflings get +2 Cha, +2 Int or Con). Tieflings' Infernal Wrath is now a free action damage effect to someone who wounded them.

I will say that DDi is far superior for your money. If not, the PHB2 is far better a grab than an Essentials book.

Again, this answer my change some if you're DMing rather than playing.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I worry if DDI would be TOO many options for someone looking to get into the game.

 

[Kealios]

Romantically, I'd love to DM again. Realistically, Ive lost confidence in my DMing skills, and with young children and two jobs, have just lost the time needed to run a good game. So, the short answer is that I'd likely be playing, not DMing.

That being said, Im going to have to convince my play group to try 4e again. We love options (we're in a v3.5 gestalt game now with very few "standard" races...) but as mentioned, Im just tired of 3.5, and Pathfinder seems like a newer version of 3.5...

 

[Kazoo]

Get one subscription of DDI and share it among your group. Character creation is as easy as it is to make a World of Warcraft character, or any other RPG Video Game.

We have a group of 12 players and 3 DM's and nobody uses the books anymore. DDI really is the best thing to happen to DnD. When we used to play 3.5 we had to buy tons of books (I think I personally had about 30) to get the options we wanted. Now I just have a DDI Subscription, plus anything I want to find is searchable using keywords in the compendium (included in the subscription).

My group was very resistant to try 4E, but after one session everyone was hooked.

 

[Kzach]

I'll tell you what I tell everyone that asks this same question; get a DDI subscription.

Forget the books. The PHB1 & DMG1 will give you 95% of what you need to know. Download the errata (which is free) and then just use the Compendium and Character Builder for everything else.

Having said that, this is ONLY if you care about updated rules. If you don't, then the PHB 1 & DMG 1 work perfectly fine as is, without errata.