D&D 5E Considering Bigby's Big Book of Giants: How much use did you get out of Fizban's Big Book of Dragons?

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I mean, it was mainly written by James Wyatt, who also worked on the 3e Draconomicon.

I’ll give you Spelljammer though - an extra 30-40 pages would really have rounded out the product.
What was there wasn't phoned in, particularly. I get the impression that Chris Perkins really enjoyed himself.
 

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Eubani

Hero
Low hanging fruit:
Dragon Pact Warlock
Dragon Magic Tradition - A wizard that studies draconic magic
Path of the Dragon Barbarian - Elemental Fury
Dragonslayer Ranger
Oath of the Dragon Paladin - Based off traits of Metallic Dragons
Combat Maneuvers inspired by Dragons
More feats.....come on guys don't tell me that they are so lacking in imagination that they could only think of those 2 feats.

A total lack of effort has been put into too many 5e books.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Low hanging fruit:
Dragon Pact Warlock
Dragon Magic Tradition - A wizard that studies draconic magic
Path of the Dragon Barbarian - Elemental Fury
Dragonslayer Ranger
Oath of the Dragon Paladin - Based off traits of Metallic Dragons
Combat Maneuvers inspired by Dragons
More feats.....come on guys don't tell me that they are so lacking in imagination that they could only think of those 2 feats.

A total lack of effort has been put into too many 5e books.
Just because they can think of something doesn't mean they should make it. Fizban's makes the pretty solid point, as far as the Warlock goes, that high Level Dragons work for multiple existing Patrons: Fey Pacts from Moonstone, Undead from Dracoliches, Fiendish from Tiamat, etc, etc...
 

Low hanging fruit:
Dragon Pact Warlock
Dragon Magic Tradition - A wizard that studies draconic magic
Path of the Dragon Barbarian - Elemental Fury
Dragonslayer Ranger
Oath of the Dragon Paladin - Based off traits of Metallic Dragons
Combat Maneuvers inspired by Dragons
More feats.....come on guys don't tell me that they are so lacking in imagination that they could only think of those 2 feats.

A total lack of effort has been put into too many 5e books.
Why would a monster book be packed with player-facing options?
 


It did not have to be a " GM Facing" book, at the beginning of 5e it was stated that they wanted books to be of use to player and GM, which makes sense as there would be a larger customer base aimed at purchasing such books.
"Throw a bone to players in the hope some will buy it" has been policy since 3rd edition. But it doesn't need to be a big bone. Fizban's is primarily a monster manual. The follow up to Volo's and Mordenkainen's. It was always intended as that and marketed as that. Bigby's is going to be next in the series of monster manuals, with most of the crunch dedicated to monster stat blocks. The "book of many things" is next year's main player facing book.
 

Low hanging fruit:
Dragon Pact Warlock
Dragon Magic Tradition - A wizard that studies draconic magic
Path of the Dragon Barbarian - Elemental Fury
Dragonslayer Ranger
Oath of the Dragon Paladin - Based off traits of Metallic Dragons
Combat Maneuvers inspired by Dragons
More feats.....come on guys don't tell me that they are so lacking in imagination that they could only think of those 2 feats.

A total lack of effort has been put into too many 5e books.
they did mention that they forced themselves not to make a dragon option for every class so they could have more page count for the relevant monsters.
I say the book could have been bigger but they seem to have a set format and that is not changing.
 


Parmandur

Book-Friend
"Throw a bone to players in the hope some will buy it" has been policy since 3rd edition. But it doesn't need to be a big bone. Fizban's is primarily a monster manual. The follow up to Volo's and Mordenkainen's. It was always intended as that and marketed as that. Bigby's is going to be next in the series of monster manuals, with most of the crunch dedicated to monster stat blocks. The "book of many things" is next year's main player facing book.
The Book of Many Things doesn't seem to be primarily a player iption book, either: we know so far that it has one Subclass, one Feat, and five Spells potentially. What theydescrived almost sounds more like a Setting book, in terms of content, but primarily something new and experimental.
 

This time WotC bets for quality before quantity. Do you remember the number of prestige classes in 3.5? There were literally hundreds, and then the fall in the oblivion. And other reason is the 3PPs are publishing their own "crunch". But WotC can't bet too much only in the "fluff", the lore or background, because not only there are other publishers, but also in internet age we can read the fandom wikis about novels, comics, teleseries, movies, videogames, etc.

* If there is some possible project about the elementals, then these could be linked with the cult of Tharizdun, the elder elemental eye. Maybe this is the main antagonist against the order of cronomancers as one of the main menaces of the multiverse. And the troubles are worse if there are agents working for the cult of Tharizdun from different alternate timelines fighting each other because theirs is the "sacred timeline". Yes, the idea of the "multiverse war" is not too original.
 

The Book of Many Things doesn't seem to be primarily a player iption book, either: we know so far that it has one Subclass, one Feat, and five Spells potentially. What theydescrived almost sounds more like a Setting book, in terms of content, but primarily something new and experimental.
Maybe. But there is still plenty of time to playtest lots more stuff. My feeling is it's "Xanathar's 3".

If that's not the case, then I would suggest a fair bit of the book is taken up with an adventure. It's not being marketed as an adventure, but then neither was Stryxhaven, and the is no 2023 adventure path announced.

Or, it's not a book at all, but a boxed set including physical cards.
 
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The Book of Many Things doesn't seem to be primarily a player iption book, either: we know so far that it has one Subclass, one Feat, and five Spells potentially. What theydescrived almost sounds more like a Setting book, in terms of content, but primarily something new and experimental.
The Book of Many Things doesn't release until Summer/Fall of next year, so I think there's is probably a modest window for further player option UAs between now and when it needs to be finalized. They may also use it to update some older existing subclasses that could use a second pass, like most of the stuff from SCAG.

The book's description makes it sound a lot like Xanathar/Tasha's, so I'm inclined to think it's probably something along those lines...
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Maybe. But there is still plenty of time to playtest lots more stuff. My feeling is it's "Xanathar's 3".

If that's not the case, then I would suggest a fair bit of the book is taken up with an adventure. It's not being marketed as an adventure, but then neither was Stryxhaven, and the is no 2023 adventure path announced.

Or, it's not a book at all, but a boxed set including physical cards.
Interesting that you mention Strixhaven, because my guess is that this is Amanda Hammon's follow-up project (Wyatt seems to be doing Bigby'sas a follow-upto Fizban's, Phandelver is probably Perkins, Planescape us then logically Schneider and the Vault book is problargely outsourced).

The only statement is that the book will have creatures, locations, and player options tied to the cards in the deck. The primary organizational scheme is probably the cards themselves, so they need gameable material centered on 22 themes...and that doesn't leave a lot of page count per section, even if it's a full 320 page book (which I tend to doubt).
 
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Parmandur

Book-Friend
The Book of Many Things doesn't release until Summer/Fall of next year, so I think there's is probably a modest window for further player option UAs between now and when it needs to be finalized. They may also use it to update some older existing subclasses that could use a second pass, like most of the stuff from SCAG.

The book's description makes it sound a lot like Xanathar/Tasha's, so I'm inclined to think it's probably something along those lines...
Neither Xanathar's nor Tasha's had monster stat blocks or adventure locations. And UA is tied up with the new Core rules for a while: I think they tested the new player options for 2023 already (which is already more than we got in 2022, mind you).
 

Neither Xanathar's nor Tasha's had monster stat blocks or adventure locations. And UA is tied up with the new Core rules for a while: I think they tested the new player options for 2023 already (which is already more than we got in 2022, mind you).
Specifics of what's included aside, the book's baseline description says "this book takes the deck of many things and uses it to explore new player and DM options", which is pretty much in line with Xanathar and Tasha - and both did indeed have sections dedicated to tables for generating encounters and other experiences for various adventuring environments.

I don't think a couple more non-OneD&D UAs are out of the question, so I think they can probably make it work - especially if they're willing to draw upon some of the older player options that need a fresh/setting neutral coat of paint.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Specifics of what's included aside, the book's baseline description says "this book takes the deck of many things and uses it to explore new player and DM options", which is pretty much in line with Xanathar and Tasha - and both did indeed have sections dedicated to tables for generating encounters and other experiences for various adventuring environments.

I don't think a couple more non-OneD&D UAs are out of the question, so I think they can probably make it work - especially if they're willing to draw upon some of the older player options that need a fresh/setting neutral coat of paint.
The specifics of what they said in the press conference was "creatures, locations, and player options" tied to the cards. I thinks this will be more modular adventure material and Setting detail than player fluff. I honestly see no reason to suspect anything like Xanathar's, or any further UA for the 2023 books to speak of since we seem to already have as much crunch for them in UA as I would expect they will have overall.
 
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Neither Xanathar's nor Tasha's had monster stat blocks or adventure locations. And UA is tied up with the new Core rules for a while: I think they tested the new player options for 2023 already (which is already more than we got in 2022, mind you).
Tasha's had 12 monster stat blocks: 1 for the steel defender, 10 for the spirits for the summoning spells, and 1 for the juvenile mimic. And the entire environmental hazards section was basically a bunch of (unmapped) adventure locations.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Tasha's had 12 monster stat blocks: 1 for the steel defender, 10 for the spirits for the summoning spells, and 1 for the juvenile mimic. And the entire environmental hazards section was basically a bunch of (unmapped) adventure locations.
Touch. I still think the Book of Many Things is doing something a bit different. Possibly a bit different from every prior 5E book.
 

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