Constitution and HP

[Crazy Jerome]

I don't much care how they do Con in particular. I do want hit point proportions between classes to narrow slightly as level goes up, which will naturally affect how Con is handled. This may very well (and probably will) include the warrior types gaining more hit points per level than the robed caster types, but not at the same rate they started with.

That is, I don't mind something like 15:30 ratio at start between weak caster/warrior, but I don't want 45:90 several levels later. I also don't want 45:60 several levels later. In fact, right about mid-point or just under is about right, around 45:70. The warriors gradually gain in raw numbers, but gradually lose in proportion. 4E has a pretty good mix, yet the raw numbers are a bit on the high side (but only a bit).

 

[FireLance]

Constant application of con bonuses over 30 levels goes counter to the stated intent of flatter numbers in D&DN.

Here's a thought: maybe after 1st level, you get hit points from class at even levels and hit points from Constitution at odd levels.

 

[Kzach]

I want hit points to be a minor factor throughout a character's career. I think that starting off at an amount that is better than a cat scratch but worse than a crossbow bolt is about right and that very little should be added on after that.

So maybe class HD maxed plus Con mod to start and then... Con mod only every fifth-level beyond 1st.

But then since I'm in the minority on this stance, I didn't vote at all.

 

[Hassassin]

Here's a thought: maybe after 1st level, you get hit points from class at even levels and hit points from Constitution at odd levels.

I would actually prefer the lazy caterer's sequence for the levels you get a new HD:

1, 2, 4, 7, 11, 16,...

Fast increases in the beginning that slow down nicely. Unfortunately, reasonable multi-classing would probably be a chore.

 

[DogBackward]

Fast increases in the beginning that slow down nicely. Unfortunately, reasonable multi-classing would probably be a chore.

My method (above) covers this easily. Each level you get your max hit die, -2 per level beyond first. So going Barbarian 3 would get you 12+Con., 10+Con. and 8+Con. If you then switch to Wizard at level 4 (for some reason...), you get 0+Con. HP (6-6). If you take that fourth level in Fighter instead, you'd get 4+Con (10-6). It gives more HP at lower levels than your method, but over the course of 20-30 levels, I believe the overall effect would be about the same.

For ease of use, you could include a simple table in the beginning, showing what each class gets at each level. You'd only need, at most, 7 levels to show up on the table, since everybody gets Con. only after level 7.

 

[Hassassin]

My method (above) covers this easily.

The down sides include 1) I like rolling hp, 2) the effect of Con is not constant, and 3) multi-classing order matters.

 

[am181d]

I favor a Star Wars-esque Wounds/Vitality split, with Wounds equaling Con and Vitality a straight 10 points per level for all classes (because it represents a mix of fortitude, luck, agility, etc) and Armor Class being split out from Defense as Damage Reduction.

But I recognize that probably doesn't fit WotC's goals for 5e.

 

[DogBackward]

The down sides include 1) I like rolling hp, 2) the effect of Con is not constant, and 3) multi-classing order matters.

1) That's a personal issue. Especially as many believe that a permanent part of your character shouldn't be randomized. You should never have, for example, a Barbarian who rolls nothing but 1's and 2's have their HP outstripped by a Wizard with the same Consitution that happens to roll slightly higher. I've seen it happen, and it sucks.

2) Yes it is, you get Con. score in HP at each level. That's the definition of "constant". Unless you mean that the effect of Constution in relation to Hit Dice isn't constant. In which case you're right... and that's a feature, not a bug. Next has the stated design goal of flattening the numbers, and having Constitution and Hit Dice have equal effect over all levels won't do that, and you'll just have the same HP bloat that you used to.

3) You will almost never get rid of this effect. That's an issue with multiclassing. Personally, I'd prefer a much simpler class system: Adept, Expert and Warrior, with each using a Talent system to determine special abilities. But you work with what you have. And I don't really see much of a way to not have multiclassing order matter at some point.

 

[Hassassin]

1) That's a personal issue. Especially as many believe that a permanent part of your character shouldn't be randomized.

There are enough people who like it that my guess is 5e will have hit dice where you can take the average instead. Could be wrong, of course.

2) [...] Unless you mean that the effect of Constution in relation to Hit Dice isn't constant.

Yes, that's how the OP defined it.

Next has the stated design goal of flattening the numbers, and having Constitution and Hit Dice have equal effect over all levels won't do that, and you'll just have the same HP bloat that you used to.

But having variable con/hp ratio by itself doesn't help in any way. You could instead e.g. use HD+Con, but halve it after level X. Flatter math and constant ratio.

3) You will almost never get rid of this effect. That's an issue with multiclassing.

It's hardly impossible, though all the interesting things seem to make it more difficult. As an example, one could replace the full 1st level hp in 3e with a +4 or so bonus. Then order wouldn't matter.

 

[Kingreaper]

3) You will almost never get rid of this effect. That's an issue with multiclassing. Personally, I'd prefer a much simpler class system: Adept, Expert and Warrior, with each using a Talent system to determine special abilities. But you work with what you have. And I don't really see much of a way to not have multiclassing order matter at some point.

If you add in level 0 for each class, so that "double HP at first level" is because 1st level is actually two levels*, it works fine.
*or, my preference, 3 apprentice levels before the default starting level.

Otherwise, you can't do it without making level 1 too undifferentiated to be fun for most people.