[Controversy] So what's a munchkin to you?

[Jurkunaite]

Munchkin has been overused as an insult, yes, undoubtedly, like all insults. However I am with the camp who suggest that a true munchkin ruins the fun for others by manipulating the rules. Using the rules to powergame is OK if you are OK with that. What people have suggested on this thread goes *beyond* acceptable styles of play and into the realms of serious game disruption.

I played with two blokes who were good players but always used katanas and elven mail, regardless of what they were playing (and obviously it follows that they usually played characters who could use those weapons). They were bordering on the boring. I didn't give up gaming with them (and my characters were usually laughably wretched anyway) because they didn't ruin my fun. So they weren't really munchkins, just boring players. Munchkinism is always going to be subjective. Some of the products put out for FR (the allegedly favourite setting of munchkins) have been overheavy on the temptations - spellfire for one and the too-common use of drow PCs, a vogue started by Drizzt and only exacerbated by his inclusion in Baldur's Gate; but then again the setting is supposed to be magic-rich and the possibilities for a good DM in terms of political games that can be played there far outweigh the "sick" characters that roam Faerun.

As regards moral judgements, sometimes people can be too tolerant. But such a subjective idea as munchkinism has to be reduced only to real abuse and not just "I don't like"...

 

[KnowTheToe]

Re: I voted cheater, but...

You can be a munchkin without TECHNICALLY cheating.

A munchkin is someone who uses everything at his disposal, whether it's cheating, metagaming, powergaming, or roleplaying, to "win" the game. By winning, what I mean is:

1> Dominating the DM's attention
2> Marginalizing the other PC's
3> Driving the plot, exclusively.

He tries to "own" the game.

Yea, What he said

 

[shadow]

Why is there this big backlash against "munchkins", and not a big backlash against the other end of the spectrum? The word "munchkin" is really just a blanket insult for people who play a style of game that is more powerful of higher level than your own. Sure, certain meta-gamers and rules lawyers can be annoying at times, but I've seen extreme role-players who can be just as annoying. For example, I had a player once who played a character that was chronically depressed. His character was too depressed most of the time to do any fighting or go on adventures. This really got on my nerves after awhile, since he was more interested in talking about how depressed his character was, rather than going on adventures. This player was almost as disruptive as meta-gamers and rule lawyers. There seems to be some bias. A special demeaning word "munchkin" exists to describe high power gamers, but no special insult exists to describe disruptive players on the opposite end of the spectrum. What gives?

 

[Humanophile]

What, no "other" option? I personally vote for Vaxalon's take: a player whos playing style seems almost tailored to marginalizing the other players/characters and overtaking/"winning" the game.

And I think we need to once and for all nail the title down, for the exact reason Psion noted; there's no point lumping the gaming louts in a group with people who just like high power or wargaming more than method acting.

 

[Tratyn Runewind]

Hello!

As always, my own standard of munchkinism is defined by several of the characters in the classic story, The Intercontinental Union of Disgusting Characters. All major characters in the story except Ringman are powergamers; those who have stuck with the Union until the end of the story are munchkins. It's an epic tale of munchkinism, redemption from it, and the fight against it, set in the era of the pre-Unearthed Arcana First Edition AD&D rule set (so far as the characters bother with rules). Well worth a read for those amused by that sort of thing, especially the older gamers who will get all the references...

Posted by Shadow:
Why is there this big backlash against "munchkins", and not a big backlash against the other end of the spectrum?

Well, Kamikaze Midget does seem less than pleased with them. It's at least a start... But it depends in part on your definition of munchkins, which is what this thread is about. If by munchkin you mean "annoying players who ruin the fun for others", then the other end of their spectrum would be nice people who make the game more fun for others, and nobody wants a backlash against them (we need as many as we can get!). If you mean "cheaters", then the situation is similar - their opposites, honest players, are usually most welcome. And if you mean "powergamers", well, they often do have their own rivalries going with their opposites, KM's "Drama Twinks".

Hope this helps, and enjoy the story!