D&D 5E Converting 3.xE adventures to 5E

[Olaf the Stout]

I switched my Rise of the Runelords game over from Pathfinder to 5E at the start of Chapter 5. Doing a DC= 1/2(of PF DC)+5 seems to work pretty well for traps, hazards, skill checks, etc. Monsters I either try to find something close in the 5E MM and tweak from there, or just kind of eyeball it using MM stats of a similar CR as a guideline. The infamous "Boss Monster Alone in a Room" from PF APs get upgraded to Legendary creatures, often with Lair actions.

Treasure I cut way back on (and I even did a complete re-work of the PCs equipment in the conversion, ditching a lot of their generic "Just so the math works" items in favor of stuff that was more flavorful) and most enemies they encounter don't have the pile of +1/+2 equipment they did in PF. They either have nothing at all, or a couple of interesting items from their original PF inventory. If I feel they could use a plus here or there to keep their challenge level up, then I might give them a ring or cloak of protection or magical armor or whatever. When we were playing PF one of the players was actually using an Excel spreadsheet to keep track of all the equipment they found and the GP value to make sure everyone was getting a fair share. Now when they find stuff they decide who would get the most use out of it (taking attunement into account) and just keep a list of anything they're not using. I also don't need to waste time on book-keeping exercises during the game as they sell off the tons of unwanted +1 and +2 to gear in order to buy the next step up in their own gear.

Cheers for that. Rise of the Runelords is definitely one of the adventures I have that I'd be interesting in running in 5E.

There's been some really useful information in here overall. I think the biggest thing seems to be to not try and convert exactly.

Don't convert an encounter with 4 Orcs in 3.xE to an encounter with 4 Orcs in 5E. Instead, figure out what the relative challenge of such an encounter is in 3.xE and then try and make the same difficulty of encounter in 5E, adjusting creatures and creature numbers as required.

 

[Kalshane]

Cheers for that. Rise of the Runelords is definitely one of the adventures I have that I'd be interesting in running in 5E.

There's been some really useful information in here overall. I think the biggest thing seems to be to not try and convert exactly.

Don't convert an encounter with 4 Orcs in 3.xE to an encounter with 4 Orcs in 5E. Instead, figure out what the relative challenge of such an encounter is in 3.xE and then try and make the same difficulty of encounter in 5E, adjusting creatures and creature numbers as required.

Sounds about right. The importance is keeping the feel of the original encounters rather than slavishly replicating them. The conversion is also inspiring to me to change things up a little here or there since I'm having to modify things anyway. Chapter 5, for instance begins with a boss fight that has a specific creature backing them up, and then the enemy statted up as the final boss of the chapter (though the PCs conceivably be fighting her earlier on, depending on how they choose to explore the main dungeon) has the same type of creature working with them. I changed the type and number of creatures in the latter case to make it a distinctly different fight and to take better advantage of the location.

I would definitely be cautious with the goblin numbers in the opening of the AP, as 5E goblins (+4 to hit, 1d6+2 damage) are a whole lot more dangerous than their PF counterparts (at +2 to hit, 1d4 damage), even if you play up crazy nature of Golarion goblins (which you totally should. My players still talk about the time the party fighter got crit in the face by a dead cat one of the goblins threw at them in their first battle.) Describe goblins doing stuff in the background that isn't immediately threatening to the PCs, so it still feels like a sizeable force, but make sure the ones actively fighting the PCs equal the CR the fight should be.

If I was going to run RotRL from the beginning in 5E, I would seriously think about starting the PCs at 2nd or 3rd level, just so I could throw more than 2 or 3 goblins at them at a time.

 

[CapnZapp]

DCs: Correct.

Quickest: If nothing else, halve the DC. (Really, you should only halve the bit above ten, so DC 30 becomes 20, not 15, but still).

Still Quick: In 5th Edition DCs are, roughly, 11 + spell level. Still keeping it easy.

A monster casting a 6th level spell at the adventurers? Go with DC 17.
A CR 11 monster creating some effect that the party needs to save against? Since CR 11 or level 11 is when you get 6th level spells, go with DC 17.

This is obviously very raw a doesn't take low or high ability scores into account, but it sure is fast and simple.

Quicker: Even simpler?

An average task, a low-level foe? DC 10
(Any easier than that - don't roll, just succeed)

A hard task, a mid-level foe? DC 15

A very difficult task, a high-level foe? DC 20
(This is what a commoner would call "almost impossible")

An epic task, an epic foe? DC 25
If you are at all unsure, never use a DC this high.

 

[CapnZapp]

Also, watch the treasure. Magical treasure is not normally as common in 5E, and +2 or higher (weapons or armor) would be much less common.

Also correct.

Frankly, the easiest conversion is: Remove all magic items.


Then, possibly.

Take the top permanent item (most story, most power, etc) and convert it and place it. (Assuming a shortish adventure. Obviously a full campaign can contain more items)

Other than that, sprinkle a very limited number of consumables.

Still nowhere like in 3rd ed - we're talking perhaps three places where you have a small handful of potions, scrolls or the like.

As for gold, you can basically keep the 3E gold. Or remove it, it doesn't matter much.

 

[CapnZapp]

As for monsters, the advice is well-meaning... but also not the easiest solution.

Most simply, keep monsters as is.

Don't care too much whether a worg or ogre is stronger or weaker than in 3E. Let the players decide for themselves if it's a good idea to attack head on.

(This advice works best at levels 3 and up, when everybody has enough hp to not be instagibbed by a single unlucky hit)

 

[CapnZapp]

Direct conversion of spell casters will leave them weaker than expected. I tend to give spell casters some minions to help keep the party off them so they can cast spells.

It depends on how you convert.

If you take the lead from official modules, all clerics become simply Priests. All shamans and druids become Druids. All rangers and woodsmen become Scouts, or Commoners. And so on.

Do note that arcane spellcasters are CR-rated much higher than divine casters (and fighters):

Arcanists generally have a CR equal to their hit dice (that is, a 9th level arcane caster has 9 hit dice and is CR 9). For pretty much everybody else, half that is more typical (that is, a 9th level divine caster has 9 hit dice and is CR 5ish)

Point is: if you drop the "expectations" of the module, conversion becomes dead easy.

And since official modules surprisingly often doesn't seem to care one bit about CR, why should you?

(In Out of the Abyss, starting characters are coupled with CR 2 or CR 5 allies. Later, they might be level 8-12... but still be given CR 2 or CR 5 allies!)

 

[S'mon]

This is very true. The AP assumes that enemy spellcasters are able to buff themselves up substantially before fighting the PCs, which doesn't work in 5E because of both the Concentration mechanic and the fact they don't have nearly as many spell slots.

Yes - IME PF adventures artificially boost NPC casters by assuming they always have time to buff up in a very optimised way - they still get squashed easily in those 4 PC vs 1 caster fights.

Solutions for 5e:

1. Simply restat enemy caster with decent AC, hit points etc ("4e style" - but 5e does this too by default) without worrying about PC class mechanics. I use PC class & feat mechanics as occasional signature abilities (Rogue types may Sneak Attack, Rangers may have a Favoured Enemy), not as #
requirements.

2. Exactly like in 3e/PF, spellcasters work much better with some minions/allies/henchmen to
soak up PC attacks. The simplest solution is usually just to have the PCs fight caster
(Encounter Z) + penultimate guards (Encounter Y) at the same time. If the PCs do get to face the caster alone in his room it should be because they got the drop on him through skilled play, not
the default.

 

[S'mon]

I switched my Rise of the Runelords game over from Pathfinder to 5E at the start of Chapter 5. Doing a DC= 1/2(of PF DC)+5 seems to work pretty well for traps, hazards, skill checks, etc.

Nice. "Divide by 2 & add 5" seems a better way of saying my "divide number over 10 by 2".

 

[S'mon]

As for monsters, the advice is well-meaning... but also not the easiest solution.

Most simply, keep monsters as is.

If you mean "Just use the 5e MM stats and the number of critters listed in the adventure"
- yes, this works. Sometimes it makes too-easy fights, and if you have a lot of those in a row you'll want to break it up with harder stuff.

 

[S'mon]

It depends on how you convert.

If you take the lead from official modules, all clerics become simply Priests. All shamans and druids become Druids. All rangers and woodsmen become Scouts, or Commoners. And so on.

Do note that arcane spellcasters are CR-rated much higher than divine casters (and fighters):

Arcanists generally have a CR equal to their hit dice (that is, a 9th level arcane caster has 9 hit dice and is CR 9). For pretty much everybody else, half that is more typical (that is, a 9th level divine caster has 9 hit dice and is CR 5ish)

Point is: if you drop the "expectations" of the module, conversion becomes dead easy.

And since official modules surprisingly often doesn't seem to care one bit about CR, why should you?

(In Out of the Abyss, starting characters are coupled with CR 2 or CR 5 allies. Later, they might be level 8-12... but still be given CR 2 or CR 5 allies!)

I agree, but the MM arcanists CR is 2/3 their hit dice. Other NPCs have CR around 1/3 their hit dice.
In my sandbox 5e game I find the MM NPC stats work great for 95% of NPCs, with very minor tweaking - eg I was making a Lady Ranger yesterday & wanted her a bit more durable as a companion character, so I
took the Scout, tweaked stats, added 2 hit dice, and Ranger 1st level powers. That is only necessary for major characters, for minor ones I run them straight out of the book.

Anna Souvari, Ranger of the Wode
Medium humanoid (human)
Armor Class: 14 (12 studded leather, +2 DEX)
Hit Points: 28 (5d8+5)
Proficiency +2
Speed: 30 ft.
Strength 9 (-1), Dexterity 14 (+2), Constitution 12 (+1), Intelligence 12 (+1), Wisdom 14 (+2), Charisma 15 (+2)
Skills: Survival +4, Perception +4, Nature +2, Stealth +4
Passive perception: 14
Challenge Rating: 1 (200 XP)

Actions
Anna can make 2 longbow attacks or 2 shortsword attacks per attack action. She can use a Bonus action to make a third shortsword attack.

Longbow ATT +4 dam: 1d8+2 (2 attacks)
Shortsword ATT +4 dam: 1d6+2 (3 attacks)

Favoured Enemy: Gnolls, Humans. Advantage on Survival rolls to track and Int rolls to recall knowledge. Knows Gnoll-tongue & Altanian speech as well as Nerathi-Alryan Common.
Natural Explorer - Plains.
Fighting Style - Two Weapon.

I did create a High Priest BBEG stat block from whole cloth as that's a gap in the MM array.