Converting Al-Qadim creatures

[Cleon]

Yeah, there's precedent for that. Rend Fallen, as per the Abyssal Maw in MMII.

For once, overrunning looks like an appropriate ability. Only catch is that it'll still provoke an attack of opportunity against the elephant bird.

Oh I forgot Improved Overrun didn't negate the standard AoO. I'd rather give its beak the Trip special attack than have it risk opportunity attacks.

 

[freyar]

Good suggestions on spit stones. The original had the fire damage happening in two rounds, which is probably why the lower value.

I think I like the mechanic of overrun better than trip, to be honest. It's not like they're throwing someone down with their beak, like a wolf would do with its bite. Why don't we just write an "Overrun" SA, must like the trip attack of a wolf, that negates the AoO?

 

[Cleon]

Looks good.

For the "mass attack" bonuses, how about we add Improved Trip as a bonus feat (like Cleon suggested), and give 'em a toned-down version of this epic creatures' ability?

Savage (Ex): If a brachyurus successfully trips an opponent, it latches onto the opponent's body and tears the flesh. This automatically deals an additional 15d6+25 points of damage. If an opponent goes prone for any reason (perhaps as the subject of another brachyurus's Improved Trip attack) in an area the brachyurus threatens, the brachyurus can also savage the victim as a free action (treat as the brachyurus's attack of opportunity for the round), even though it had nothing to do with tripping the foe.

Rend fallen is a bit odd, though, as the abyssal maw lacks any method of tripping a foe. It almost suggests that any creature it drops below 0 hp is immediately hit for additional damage.

Here's the writeup...

Rend Fallen (Ex): An abyssal maw loves to tear into its downed foes. It automatically deals an additional 2d8+4 points of damage to any foe it drops with a melee attack.

Rather than automatic damage, I'd prefer an attack-of-opportunity mechanism, maybe with increased damage against a prone foe. Something like.

Rend Fallen (Ex): An elephant bird can make bonus beak attacks against prone opponents in any space the bird threatens. The bird can make a single Rend Fallen attack whenever a foe falls prone (including opponents that were tripped or overrun by the elephant bird or its companions), plus it can make a single Rend Fallen attack on its initiative score against a previously fallen opponent. An elephant bird's Rend Fallen attacks are in addition to any normal beak attacks it makes on its turn, and count towards the number of attacks of opportunity it can make in a round as if they were normal attacks of opportunity.
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That means an elephant bird gets 2 beak attacks (1 standard, 1 AoO) and 2 claws against a prone foe when full-attacking, so I don't think it needs a damage increase as well, since it is potentially doubling its beak damage simply by doubling its number of attacks.

If we use this mechanism, there is an obvious temptation to give the elephant bird Combat Reflexes...

 

[freyar]

Why not just say that it can make an AoO against any prone foe?

Also, we cross-posted, look above!

 

[Cleon]

Why not just say that it can make an AoO against any prone foe?

'Cause I like to make things complicated.

Also, we cross-posted, look above!

About the Spit Stones and Overrun? Yes, I'm writing a response to that now.

 

[Cleon]

Good suggestions on spit stones. The original had the fire damage happening in two rounds, which is probably why the lower value.

I think I like the mechanic of overrun better than trip, to be honest. It's not like they're throwing someone down with their beak, like a wolf would do with its bite. Why don't we just write an "Overrun" SA, must like the trip attack of a wolf, that negates the AoO?

That suits me just as well, so I might as well rough out a writeup by modifying the wolf's Trip SA.

Overrun (Ex):[sans AoA] An elephant bird that hits with a charge attack can attempt to overrun its opponent (+X check modifier) as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If the elephant bird fails it has no risk of falling prone.
​

Although I am wondering whether we could keep an AoO as an option - maybe base on a combination of the Trample and Trip special attacks? Something like:

Overrun (Ex):[with Reflex] An elephant bird that hits with a charge attack can attempt to overrun its opponent (+X check modifier) as a free action. The opponent can either make an attack of opportunity against the elephant bird or try to avoid the overrun with a DCX Reflex save (success negates the overrun attempt, but the opponent still takes damage from the charge attack). If the elephant bird fails its overrun's Strength check it has no risk of falling prone. The Reflex save DC is Strength-based.
​

 

[freyar]

I like the first option, as overrunning already has opposed checks.

 

[demiurge1138]

The rend fallen as cleon's written it is rather too powerful. I'd rather that they just do bonus damage to prone opponents.

 

[Shade]

Agreed.

Summarizing...

Overrun (Ex): An elephant bird that hits with a charge attack can attempt to overrun its opponent (+X check modifier) as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If the elephant bird fails it has no risk of falling prone.

Rend Fallen (Ex): An elephant bird automatically deals an additional xdx+x points of damage to a prone foe.

Spit Stones (Ex): An elephant bird swallows large rocks and stores them in its gullet, which superheats them magically, and can then spew these red-hot stones at opponents with tremendous force. An elephant bird can spit a single stone up to 50 feet away as a standard action, doing 1d10+3 bludgeoning damage plus 1d6 fire damage. This is a ranged attack with no range increment. An elephant bird’s gullet may hold up to 3 stones, the bird may snatch and swallow a rock as a full-round action to replenish one stone, but does not usually stop to do this during combat.

 

[demiurge1138]

I don't think it needs a +x. It's more like sneak attack, in my view, only doing bonus dice to the prone instead of the flat-footed or flanked.