Converting Creatures from Other Campaign Settings

[freyar]

Wait, in post 1120 you thought Magical Beast doesn't feel right! (Though that was a while ago, no fault of yours!) I think the full BAB is fine, but I don't think they probably need the bonus feats.

The defeat of the lizards on the death of Egg Guy was why I suggested they're summoned. But let's worry about that relationship later.

 

[Cleon]

Wait, in post 1120 you thought Magical Beast doesn't feel right! (Though that was a while ago, no fault of yours!)

Well not as right as Native Outsider felt to me, but you didn't like the idea!

I think the full BAB is fine, but I don't think they probably need the bonus feats.

I proposed the bonus feat idea was in the original short story they were such good combatants that Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser were on the back foot throughout their fight with them. In Leiber's books, an ordinary swordsman is usually lucky if they're able to exchange blows with either of the pair before being killed, but the heroes would have lost if Mouser hadn't stumbled upon Egg Guy while Fafhrd kept the two Lizards busy (and the latter was desperately defeating while he fought them IIRC).

The defeat of the lizards on the death of Egg Guy was why I suggested they're summoned. But let's worry about that relationship later.

They didn't vanish or dissolve into the ether like a you'd expect a summoned creature to do though.

When Egg Guy died, the two gladiator lizards literally dropped dead.

To me that implies their lives were dependent on each other for some reason.

 

[freyar]

I am happy enough with Magical Beast. Let's do that.

I'm ambivalent about the bonus feats, so you can include them if you like. But I thought our two heroes were also kind of out of it and therefore not fighting as well as usual due to something about Egg Guy's influence over them.

I guess I'm not as interested in sticking quite so closely to the story's text given that the D&D monster didn't precisely either. And because Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser were mentally not really together during this encounter, so the description of what happened might be a bit distorted.

 

[Cleon]

I am happy enough with Magical Beast. Let's do that.

Have updated the Gladiator Lizard as a Magical Beast.

I've pencilled in 7d10 Hit Dice and Speed 40 ft. since the original monster is 7 HD and Move 15.

From what I recall the Bleak Shore is a chilly place, so I'll also pencil in Cold Desert as the Environment.

Any preferences for the alignment? I prefer Neutral Evil like the 2E versions over the Lawful Evil of the 1E versions.

I'm ambivalent about the bonus feats, so you can include them if you like. But I thought our two heroes were also kind of out of it and therefore not fighting as well as usual due to something about Egg Guy's influence over them.

I guess I'm not as interested in sticking quite so closely to the story's text given that the D&D monster didn't precisely either. And because Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser were mentally not really together during this encounter, so the description of what happened might be a bit distorted.

Well I like the idea, so I'm doing it!

Updating the Gladiator Lizard.

They have "a single yard-long claw" at the end of each arm that's compared to a sword in the description.

Would you be game to five it a sword's increased critical threat range of 19-20 or 18-20?

 

[Cleon]

Hive Mind (Ex): Gladiator lizards hatch in broods of two to four individuals. Brood-mates within 50 miles of each other are in constant telepathic communication. If one brood-mate is aware of a particular danger, they all are. If one in a group is not flat-footed, none of them are. No gladiator lizard in a group of brood-mates is considered flanked unless all of them are.

You know, all the AD&D versions specify the link is only between two individuals, not an entire brood.

I think I prefer the paired version I proposed.

Hive Mind (Ex): Gladiator lizards hatch in pairs, called brood-mates. Brood-mates within 50 miles of each other are in constant telepathic communication. If one brood-mate is aware of a particular danger, both are. If one in a pair is not flat-footed, neither of them is. No gladiator lizard in a pair of brood-mates is considered flanked unless both of them are.

Hmm, tempted to rename it to differentiate the ability from standard Hive Mind:

Brood-Mate (Ex): Gladiator lizards hatch in pairs, called brood-mates. Brood-mates within 50 miles of each other are in constant telepathic communication. If one brood-mate is aware of a particular danger, both are. If one in a pair is not flat-footed, neither of them is. No gladiator lizard in a pair of brood-mates is considered flanked unless both of them are.​

Also, the 2E version gives them an advantage when teaming up against an opponent: "If both lizards strike the same target in the same round, the second lizard to strike gains +1 to hit on both its blows."

That suggests some kind of Special Attack if two Lizards engage the same opponent.

Maybe:

Brood-Mate #2 (Ex): Gladiator lizards hatch in pairs, called brood-mates. Brood-mates within 50 miles of each other are in constant telepathic communication. If one brood-mate is aware of a particular danger, both are. If one in a pair is not flat-footed, neither of them is. No gladiator lizard in a pair of brood-mates is considered flanked unless both of them are.

If both brood-mates attack the same opponent in a round, each gains a +1 circumstance bonus to their attack roll.​

 

[freyar]

The 18-20 threat range is ok if you want to go that far.

The brood-mate ability is ok. But wouldn't it be more 3.X-ish for them to sneak attack when the pair flanks someone? I mean, the circumstance bonus is fine, but I think the sneak attack comes up with other critters.

 

[Cleon]

The 18-20 threat range is ok if you want to go that far.

The brood-mate ability is ok. But wouldn't it be more 3.X-ish for them to sneak attack when the pair flanks someone? I mean, the circumstance bonus is fine, but I think the sneak attack comes up with other critters.

While I'm OK having them do a bit more damage with double-teaming an opponent, I'm not in favour of it being sneak attack style flanking damage.

From what I remember of the original short story, Fafhrd was fighting two lizards who were in front of him and there was no mention of one sneaking around for a back-stab.

So if we use a bonus dice approach, I'd be more up for a speed/precision style approach like a 3E Scout's Skirmish ability over a stealthy/deceptive style of a Rogue's Sneak Attack.

 

[freyar]

Ehh, let's just go with your proposed circumstance bonus in Brood-Mate option 2.

Did we not do abilities yet? I guess we're given Int ("Very") but otherwise it seems to be guesswork. I guess we could boost the physical stats of something like an owlbear a couple of points.

 

[Cleon]

Ehh, let's just go with your proposed circumstance bonus in Brood-Mate option 2.

Okie-dokey, although I'm tempted to kick it up to a +2.

Updating the Gladiator Lizard.

Did we not do abilities yet? I guess we're given Int ("Very") but otherwise it seems to be guesswork. I guess we could boost the physical stats of something like an owlbear a couple of points.

Yeah, Very suggests they've got Intelligence 11 or 12 depending on whether we want to give them a stat bonus or not.

An Owlbear is Str 21, Dex 12, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10 which is OK but I'd also consider the Umber Hulk for comparison, which has Str 23, Dex 13, Con 19, Int 11, Wis 11, Cha 13 officially (although I believe I've mentioned several times I consider the official 3E stats for it to be too weak).

Maybe mix-and-match those for Abilities #1: Str 22, Dex 13, Con 21, Int 12, Wis 11, Cha 10 or tweak the other mental stats up too and make it Abilities #2: Str 22, Dex 13, Con 21, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 13?

 

[freyar]

The +2 circumstance bonus is fine. Might as well make them tougher!

And on that note, your second ability line is good, too.

What other special abilities do you want to add to these?