Converting Creatures from Other Campaign Settings

[Cleon]

Flavor text looks pretty good, and I'm ok keeping the red text. We should separate out "they prize cloth, salt, spices, and wood." and "it takes an adult sand-shifter to summon the desert giant's petrified ancestors." into separate sentences.

I like the revised languages and fighter as favored class. I could go either way about listing cleric domains, but I do like the ones you've listed. So we might as well keep them. Just split "a desert giant wizard is extremely unusual" into a separate sentence, and it's good to go.

Updating the Desert Giant Working Draft.

Okay, time for the Chieftain!

We might as well stat up a "standard chieftain" since that'll likely get the most use in play.

We'd better decide on the class & level before going any further.

According to our conversion's Organization line, a chieftain's 6th or 7th level.

So 6th-level fighter or 7th-level fighter?

Elite stat arrays. I'd put the lowest number (8) in Constitution rather than the traditional fighter "dump stat" of Charisma, since chieftain's are supposed to be leaders dang it!

 

[freyar]

6th level fighter, so it has room for advancement, I think. Why not put the dump stat into Int?

 

[Cleon]

6th level fighter, so it has room for advancement, I think.

Works for me!

EDIT: oh, and better update the Desert Giant (Chieftain) Working Draft.

Why not put the dump stat into Int?

What kind of people would follow a dumb leader when it might be a matter of life or death?

Constitution works better for me.

An old and feeble giant or a young giant of delicate health can make erudite decision about the tribe's survival, but one with sub par Intelligence or Wisdom seems inappropriate.

They've got a hefty racial bonus to Con and fighter is a primary Fort save, so they won't suffer that much for being a tad under par.

Besides, we can always give the chief a +2 amulet of heath to compensate for the deficiency.

 

[freyar]

Well, I agree with you in terms of the leaders I like, but they're a martial type society where toughness is probably more valued. Below average Con just doesn't quite feel right for them. If you want a physical stat as the dump stat, I'd prefer Dex since heavier armor is a lot more accessible than an amulet.

 

[Cleon]

Well, I agree with you in terms of the leaders I like, but they're a martial type society where toughness is probably more valued. Below average Con just doesn't quite feel right for them. If you want a physical stat as the dump stat, I'd prefer Dex since heavier armor is a lot more accessible than an amulet.

Well desert giant society doesn't look that martial to me - they're not all about "warfare and glory." They're basically gigantic fantasy Bedouin, so I guess it's more desert survival and honour that matters to them?

Anyway, I'm willing to make Dexterity the dump stat. These chieftains seem to favour a Whopping Big Scimitar as their weapon, so they would lean more towards melee than hurling spear hurling.

So elite array is 15 14 13 12 10 8, they'll have one +1 stat boost at 16 HD so the 15 is going to be a 16.

How about an array arrangement of Str 16, Dex 8, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 12?

Desert Giant racial abilitiy bonuses are +14 Str, +2 Dex, +8 Con, which'd mean:

Abilities: Str 30, Dex 10, Con 21, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 12

Would that be OK?

 

[Cleon]

Anyway, I'm willing to make Dexterity the dump stat. These chieftains seem to favour a Whopping Big Scimitar as their weapon, so they would lean more towards melee than hurling spear hurling.

What are we going to use for the "Whopping Big Scimitar" they like to use? There's a Great Scimitar in Sandstorm which is a 1d8 damage 18–20/×2 crit weapon that can be wielded two-handed as a Martial Weapon and one-handed as an Exotic Weapon. That seems to be what they were going for, but I don't think it's SRD.

We could just give them a Falchion I suppose, since it's Whopping Big Scimitar-adjacent and does the same 2d6/18–20 damage as a Large Great Scimitar would.

Alternatively, Sandstorm also has the Great Falchion exotic weapon, a 1d12 damage upgrade of a falchion that would be 3d6/18–20 for a Large giant.

Or just give it a Greatsword and mention in the description that it's a bit curvy?

 

[freyar]

I was thinking of all the text about often serving as mercenaries. But, anyway, I like your proposed ability scores there.

I didn't see anything in the original about using it one- or two-handed, so perhaps "great" in "great scimitar" just means a big one, rather than a new type of weapon. So I'd be ok with a Large-sized scimitar or falchion, either way.

What do you think about splint mail for armor?

 

[Cleon]

I was thinking of all the text about often serving as mercenaries.

Does the chieftain do that very often though? From what I remember that was something individual young "adventurous" desert giants did and sent the proceeds back to the tribe. I guess chieftains could have done that in their youth - it might explain the flavour text about them receiving scimitars as gifts for service.

But, anyway, I like your proposed ability scores there.

Agreed.

Updating the Desert Giant (Chieftain) Working Draft.

I didn't see anything in the original about using it one- or two-handed, so perhaps "great" in "great scimitar" just means a big one, rather than a new type of weapon. So I'd be ok with a Large-sized scimitar or falchion, either way.

Currently, I favour the Sandstorm-style Great Scimitar for them.

What do you think about splint mail for armor?

I've long held a bias against splint. Banded Mail is where it's at!

Will we be giving the boss a shield too? I'm thinking we might as well!

 

[Cleon]

What budget do we have?

Shall we use NPC Equipment Value for a creature of the CR or just the Monster's Encounter Value.

The examples in the SRD suggest Encounter Treasure is used:

An Ogre Barbarian is CR 7 and only has about 3k of equipment (+1 weapon and +1 armour), which is a bit above the EL 7 Encounter's Treasure Value of 2,600 gp but less than half a Level 7 NPC's Value of Gear of 7,200 gp. It is pretty close to the 3,300 gp Gear Value of a 4th level Barbarian though.

The Troll Hunter is CR 11 and only has about 3k of equipment (+1 weapon and +1 armour), which is way lower than the EL 11 Treasure Value of 7,500 gp or the Level 11 NPC Gear Value of 21,000 gp. Even if they used the 5,600 gp Gear Value of a 6th level Ranger they fall short.

A Frost Giant Jarl is CR 17 and has about 44k of equipment (+2 frost greataxe, +2 full plate armor, cloak of Charisma +2, ring of minor energy resistance (fire), 2 doses of bloodroot poison), which isn't far from the EL 17 Treasure Value of 36,000 gp but again about half the Level 17 NPC Gear Value of 100,000 gp. They're certainly way over the 9,400 gp Gear Value of an 8th level non-ECL character.

So the rule of thumb seems to be "aim for Treasure per Encounter but don't sweat it if you run a little over".

At CR 13, that means the chieftain's gear should be worth about 13,000 gp or a tad more (the EL 13 Treasure Value), but we don't want to go over 17,500 gp (half the 35,000 gp Level 13 NPC Gear Value).

So basically enough for a +2 weapon, +2 armor and one very minor accessory, or two +1 weapons and more in the way of extras. I think we should give the Chief at least one minor special item if only for flavour.

Obviously something very useful in a desert, like a ring of water walking decanter of endless water (although that would eat two-thirds of the budget, being 9,000 gp).

Maybe dust of dryness?

 

[freyar]

Sure, the martial/exotic Great Scimitar works; just add a description to the working draft. Want to tweak it slightly, so it's not exactly the same as the Sandstorm version? Maybe increase the damage beyond 1d8 since it's Large?

Banded mail and a heavy shield makes sense to me, though that pushes the AC up a couple points compared to what we have projected for it. That ok with you?

I agree with your treasure analysis. Dust of dryness sounds good as the magic item, though I think we should give a percent chance that it's in pellet form with water stored in it! Maybe make the Great Scimitar a +2 weapon and put a +2 enhancement on the banded mail?

 

[Cleon]

Sure, the martial/exotic Great Scimitar works; just add a description to the working draft. Want to tweak it slightly, so it's not exactly the same as the Sandstorm version? Maybe increase the damage beyond 1d8 since it's Large?

Well 1d8 damage is what a M-sized Great Scimitar does one-handed, being Large the Desert Giant would do 2d6 damage, or 2d8 two-handed.

Guess we could "personalize it" to be different from the Sandstorm version. Maybe have it be a two-handed only weapon that does a tad more damage like a Great Falchion? Or a two-handed only weapon but Martial instead of Exotic?

Banded mail and a heavy shield makes sense to me, though that pushes the AC up a couple points compared to what we have projected for it. That ok with you?

A Frost Giant is AC 21, CR 9 while a Frost Giant Jarl is AC 29, CR 17, so it has +8 CR and +8 AC.

Our chieftain is +6 CR higher than a regular AC 19 Desert Giant which suggests it should have +6 AC Armour Class for AC 25.

We could forget about the shield and just make it +2 banded for AC 25, that way it's free to use its scimitar or a spear two-handed.

I agree with your treasure analysis. Dust of dryness sounds good as the magic item, though I think we should give a percent chance that it's in pellet form with water stored in it! Maybe make the Great Scimitar a +2 weapon and put a +2 enhancement on the banded mail?

Will it be a plain +2 weapon or a +1 weapon with a +1 special ability such as keen or shock?

Let's see, a +2 weapon (8300+X gp), +2 banded armour (4650 gp), and a dose of dust of dryness (850 gp) is 13,800 gp not including its non-magical gear and the weapons costs. A little over 13,000 gp but close enough.

We could throw on a masterwork hurling spear (330 gp) without feeling like the budget's being too badly shattered.

Hmm… how about making it a +1 great scimitar and a +1 hurling spear for 4630+X?

That'll leave 2,900 gp unspent, enough for a minor Wondrous Item worth 2,500 gp or so such as a cloak of elvenkind with a little left over to hand-wave away the non-magical gear and weapons cost.

Hmm… or we could aim for the 17,500 gp budget by giving the Chieftain a +2 weapon, +2 banded armour, masterwork hurling spear (330 gp), two doses of dust of dryness and a cloak of elvenkind. That's 17,480 gp.

With two doses of dust of dryness, one of them can be unused and the other a pellet of water.

Or just give the chief two doses and forget about the cloak.

 

[Cleon]

Or a two-handed only weapon but Martial instead of Exotic?

Upon reflection, that's a dumb idea.

If we use the Great Scimitar's 1d10 damage it'd be a Martial Weapon that's identical to a Falchion except it does slightly better damage, meaning no-one would bother with a Falchion.

Maybe give it a Falchion with Improved Critical for 2d6/15-20 at Large size, plus a note that if the campaign uses Sandstorm it can be substituted for Exotic Weapon Proficiency (great scimitar) for a 2d8/18-20 weapon?

 

[freyar]

Maybe give it a Falchion with Improved Critical for 2d6/15-20 at Large size, plus a note that if the campaign uses Sandstorm it can be substituted for Exotic Weapon Proficiency (great scimitar) for a 2d8/18-20 weapon?

Yeah, I like this idea best, too.

+2 banded mail with no shield sounds good. I like the two-handed weapon option.

Making the falchion a +2 weapon and the hurling spear masterwork makes sense. I also like the 2 doses of dust of dryness (maybe a probability that 1 is a pellet), but I don't mind either way about the cloak. Do large cloaks cost more since they take more magic?

 

[Cleon]

Yeah, I like this idea best, too.

+2 banded mail with no shield sounds good. I like the two-handed weapon option.

Making the falchion a +2 weapon and the hurling spear masterwork makes sense. I also like the 2 doses of dust of dryness (maybe a probability that 1 is a pellet), but I don't mind either way about the cloak. Do large cloaks cost more since they take more magic?

Let's drop the cloak then.

So, plain +2 falchion or +1 something falchion? I'd go for frost or shock since flaming is such a cliché.

Do large cloaks cost more since they take more magic?

Well the magic doesn't cost more, but if you want to get technical the base non-magical cloak might cost twice as much since it's Large sized gear. If it was an unusual shape it'd be more than that.

However, the Magic Item rules says magic clothing tends to be enchanted to resize itself to its wearer like The One Ring.

Also, the SRD doesn't list individual parts of an outfit so you'd need to pull out a Volo's Guide or something to find out how much of the 8gp cold weather outfit or the 10 gp explorer's outfit is the cloak and then double that.

 

[freyar]

A +1 shock falchion would be ok, but throwing might be flavorful (though probably less useful). Thundering might be fun, too. I think I'd vote for thundering but don't mind too much either way.

Easiest for skills would be to start with the normal desert giant skills and add 6 ranks in each of 2 fighter skills. We could build on the giant skills with Ride and Handle Animal or else go Ride and Climb.

 

[Cleon]

A +1 shock falchion would be ok, but throwing might be flavorful (though probably less useful). Thundering might be fun, too. I think I'd vote for thundering but don't mind too much either way.

I thought about thundering but it's just a bit sucky at that CR level compared to shock.

Consider: if it has a 50% chance of hitting shock does 1d6 lightning for ten hits out of twenty (so 10d6/20) while does only 1d8 sonic for one hit plus a Fort DC 14 to avoid deafness. So even at half hits the thundering only does 12.8% the extra damage (1d8/10d6). At, say, 90% hits it's 7.1%! (1d8/18d6).

Being deafened is a minor inconvenience, but most CR 13 foes will have little difficulty making that save.

My vote is for shock!

 

[Cleon]

Easiest for skills would be to start with the normal desert giant skills and add 6 ranks in each of 2 fighter skills. We could build on the giant skills with Ride and Handle Animal or else go Ride and Climb.

I prefer Ride and Handle Animal.

 

[freyar]

+1 shock falchion it is, then. Sounds good. (Looks like armor still needs an update, too.)

I'm happy with Ride and Handle Animal, too.

Feats: let's start with the 5 regular desert giant feats. How about Imp Init and Lightning Reflexes for the regular feats and Precise Shot, Power Attack, Cleave, and Weapon Focus (falchion) for the fighter bonus feats?

 

[Cleon]

+1 shock falchion it is, then. Sounds good. (Looks like armor still needs an update, too.)

I'm happy with Ride and Handle Animal, too.

Updating the Desert Giant (Chieftain) Working Draft.

Feats: let's start with the 5 regular desert giant feats. How about Imp Init and Lightning Reflexes for the regular feats and Precise Shot, Power Attack, Cleave, and Weapon Focus (falchion) for the fighter bonus feats?

I'd go for Improved Critical (falchion) rather than either Weapon Focus or Precise Shot.

The Chief's pretty lousy at ranged attacks, so might as well focus on melee where he's talented.

 

[freyar]

Well, based on your line about the great falchion, we'd best keep Weapon Focus anyway. So Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Focus (falchion), and Imp Crit (falchion) for the fighter feats? Does that do it for the chieftain? I guess we need to calculate initiative, which would be +4 with Imp Init, I believe.

Anything else on these?