Converting Creatures from Other Campaign Settings

[Cleon]

Desert Camouflage with "remain motionless" works. Either wording is fine, really.

I can go for the +4 racial Hide bonus in desert environments, but I'm not seeing much cause to add anything else from the original monster text. Sound ok to you?

Well we still need to do the Sand-Shifters from the original monster text, but I was reckoning on them being a subentry like Stone Giant Elders are a subentry of Stone Giant.

Updating the Desert Giant Working Draft.

Warm deserts sound ok for the environment?

I prefer "Any desert" since there's no mention of temperature ANYWHERE in the original entries. Even Al-Qadim could have cold and temperate deserts in areas with a high enough altitude.

 

[Cleon]

How's this for the Sand-Shifters?

Desert Giant Sand-Shifters
Some desert giants have the ability to summon tribal ancestors who fossilized so long ago crumbled into sand. They are called sand-shifters because of how the desert sand shift aside as the ancestral spirits rise from the ground to fight for their people once again. The summoning grants the petrified ancestor's spirits temporary bodies formed from rock and powder. Sand-shifters are also able to summon giant-sized riding creatures called stony steeds and these are the only sand-beings that can be summoned by an immature sand-shifter (see below). Sand-shifters are no more likely to become spellcasters than ordinary desert giants.

Adult sand-shifters have a Charisma score of at least 15 and the following special ability:

Sand-Shifting (Sp)[or Su?*]: If a sand-shifter is in a desert area that was once inhabited by their tribe they can summon 2d3 petrified ancestors to rise from the sand (see below for details). Alternatively, they can summon either 2d8+8 stony steeds (see below) or 1d3 petrified ancestors with 1d8+4 stony steeds. This ability is usable once per week and requires a summoning ritual that take 1 minute to complete; if interrupted the sand-shifter does not lose that week's use and can start the ritual again from the beginning. Beings summoned from the shifting sand may remain on this plane of existence for up to 2 hours as long as the sand-shifter remains conscious; they immediately vanish back to the afterlife if the sand-shifter is killed or knocked out. Summoned creatures are dismissable by the sand-shifter. This ability is the equivalent of a 7th-level spell.

Immature sand-shifters are normally desert giant children. They summon stony steeds for the tribe's warriors to ride into battle and then are kept far away from danger, often with a single adult desert giant relative to protect them. Although child sand-shifter are meant to be non-combatants they sometimes carry weapons. If armed, they will only have spears and/or javelins – lances and hurling spears are prizes a desert giant earns when attaining adulthood.

Immature sand-shifters may be Medium size (Str 17, Con 15, NA +8) or Large size (Str 21, Dex 12, Con 17). They have 7 Hit Dice, Charisma 13 and their other abilities are the same as an adult desert giant plus the following special ability:

Junior Sand-Shifting (Sp)[or Su?*]: This ability is the equivalent of a 5th-level spell. It works like the ability of an adult sand-shifter but summons 1d8+8 stony steeds.

Sand-Shifter Petrified Ancestors
A petrified ancestor has identical attributes to a desert giant, including all its equipment, except its type is Outsider ([Earth?], Extraplanar) rather than Giant (Earth?). The spirit of a petrified ancestor willingly returns to the prime material to aid its descendants. It will fight under the command of the sand-shifter who summoned it, but is motivated by loyalty not magical control. They are more like cohorts than beings conjured via a summon monster spell. It can freely disobey the sand-shifter if ordered to do anything it disapproves of, particularly actions it considers deeply dishonorable or harmful to the tribe. If the offense is truly severe a petrified ancestor may even attack the sand-shifter who summoned it, although the sand-shifter will usually dismiss it first.

Sand-Shifter Stony Steeds
A stony steed manifests as a Huge terrestrial creature equipped with a saddle suitable for a Large giant. Its form normally matches whatever mount the sand-shifter's tribe prefers, typically an elephant, giant horse or dire camel, but it can take the form of any now-deceased steed a tribe member once owned and rode into battle. This includes legendary mounts that might never have existed, provided the sand-shifter knows of them. Thus, stony steeds may be conjured in bizarre shapes such as enormous arthropods, dragons, wingless griffons, granite lions, skeletons, wheeled thrones and clockwork zebras.

Whatever their form, all stony steeds have the following statistics:

Stony Steed (Huge Magical Beast (Earth, Extraplanar); Hit Dice: 6d10+30 (63 hp); Init: +1; Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares); AC: 18 (–1 size, +1 Dex, +9 natural) touch 10, flat-footed 17; Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+17; Attack: Hoof +7 melee (1d8+3*); Full Attack: 2 hooves +7 melee (1d8+3*); Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.; Special Attacks: —; Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent; Saves: Fort +10, Ref +6, Will +5; Abilities: Str 24, Dex 13, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 6; Skills: Listen +4, Spot +4; Feats: Endurance, Iron Will, Run; CR: 3)

*A stony steed's hoof attack is treated as a secondary attack and adds only half the steed's Strength bonus to damage.

Carrying Capacity: A light load for a stony steed is up to 1,400 pounds; a medium load, 1,401-2,800 pounds; and a heavy load, 2,801-4,200 pounds. A stony steed can drag 21,000 pounds.

 

[Cleon]

How's this for the Sand-Shifters?

A petrified ancestor has identical attributes to a desert giant, including all its equipment, except its type is Outsider ([Earth?], Extraplanar) rather than Giant (Earth?).

Come to think of it, shouldn't this giant have the Earth subtype? If anything it's more earthy than a Stone Giant – they don't spontaneously turn into rock!

 

[freyar]

"Any desert" is ok with me.

Wow, that takes care of the sand-shifters! And, yes, they should definitely have the Earth subtype as far as I am concerned.

Let's get down to brass tacks on the numbers. CR 7 will be ok for me. I think they're slightly better than hill giants, but you're right that they're not as strong as stone giants. But CR 8 might work for sand shifters. LA +4 is probably ok.

Oh, and we need skills and feats! So, after accounting for the size penalty, the Hide bonus from the camo is only +10. Does that seem like enough? Or do we want to do something like 4 points in Hide and 15 each in Listen and Spot? Oh, we could do Hide 4, Listen 14, Ride 2, Spot 14. Then feats could be a Power Attack, Cleave, Iron Will, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery. What do you think? Fits their schtick.

 

[Cleon]

"Any desert" is ok with me.

Wow, that takes care of the sand-shifters! And, yes, they should definitely have the Earth subtype as far as I am concerned.

Updating the Desert Giant Working Draft.

Let's get down to brass tacks on the numbers. CR 7 will be ok for me. I think they're slightly better than hill giants, but you're right that they're not as strong as stone giants. But CR 8 might work for sand shifters. LA +4 is probably ok.

Unsurprisingly I agree with Challenge Rating 7 for the basic desert giant, but CR 8 is too low for a sand-shifter.

Consider, each of the petrified ancestors is CR 7 and on average a sand-shifter can summon four of them. On paper that's five CR 7 opponents which the Encounter Number table says is Encounter Level 12! However, since the sand-shifter is the "load bearing boss" who maintains the ancestor's presence on this plane, knocking them out will cause the four sand-shifted opponents to vanish. I'd eyeball it as around Encounter Level 10.

So maybe we should make it Encounter Number based?

Let's see, if we assume that "vanishing when the sand-shifter falls" is worth a -1 Encounter Level Adjustment, then the standard Encounter Numbers table would expand to something like:

Encounter Level (including sand-shifter)	Summoned Creatures
EL 7	1 petrified ancestor or 5-6 stony steed
EL 8	2 petrified ancestors or 7-9 stony steeds
EL 9	3 petrified ancestors or 10-12 stony steeds
EL 10	4 petrified ancestors or 13-18 stony steeds*
EL 11	5 or 6 petrified ancestors or 19-24 stony steeds*

* The encounter numbers table maxes out at 10-12, since mobs of low CR opponents are pretty worthless in 3.5 edition.

So I think I'd add the following to the Sand-Shifters entry…

Sand-Shifter Encounters: An adult sand-shifter is Challenge Rating 7 and an immature sand-shifter is Challenge Rating 5 (or CR 4 if Medium sized). If the sand-shifter has used sand-shifting its Encounter Level increases depending on how many creatures it summons: EL 8 for two petrified ancestors, 9 stony steeds, or one ancestor plus 5-6 steeds; EL 9 for three petrified ancestors, 10-12 stony steeds, two ancestors plus 5-6 steeds, or one ancestor plus 7–12 steeds; EL 10 for four petrified ancestors, 13-18 stony steeds, three ancestors plus 5-6 steeds, or two ancestor plus 7-12 steeds; and finally EL 11 for five or six petrified ancestors, 19-24 stony steeds, or three ancestors plus 7-12 steeds.

No, I think that's too messy. I can make that simpler.

How's this:

Sand-Shifter Encounter Groups: An adult sand-shifter is Challenge Rating 7 while immature sand-shifters are CR 5 (Large) or CR 4 (Medium).

If a sand-shifter has summoned creatures to the desert giant's aid, include the petrified ancestors and stony steeds when calculating a group's Encounter Numbers (i.e. three desert giants plus four petrified ancestors is seven CR 7 creatures for an Encounter Level of 13). Impose a –1 or –2 penalty to the EL if there's a significant proportion of petrified ancestors and stony steeds and the sand-shifter is part of the encounter, since the shifting-sand creatures will vanish if their summoner loses consciousness. For example, a CR 7 desert giant plus a CR 5 immature sand-shifter and ten to twelve CR 3 stony steeds calculates to EL 11 but is effectively EL 9.

Challenge Rating: 7 (also see Sand-Shifter Encounter Groups)

Oh, and we need skills and feats! So, after accounting for the size penalty, the Hide bonus from the camo is only +10. Does that seem like enough? Or do we want to do something like 4 points in Hide and 15 each in Listen and Spot? Oh, we could do Hide 4, Listen 14, Ride 2, Spot 14. Then feats could be a Power Attack, Cleave, Iron Will, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery. What do you think? Fits their schtick.

Why 14 ranks in Listen and Spot?

Consider the Stone Giant, which seems the closest SRD giant to our boy. They have Climb +11, Hide +6*, Jump +11, Spot +12 with a +8 racial on the Hide. It doesn't even have any ranks in Listen! Even the Hill Giant has Listen (the SRD's Hillie has Climb +7, Jump +7, Listen +3, Spot +6 as skills).

Let's see how the Skill Ranks work out for those two:

Hill (12 HD): Climb +7 [+7Str –3Hide], Jump +7 [+7Str –3Hide], Listen +3 [+0Wis], Spot +6 [+0Wis]
15 Skill Points: Climb 3 SP, Jump 3 SP, Listen 3 SP, Spot 6 SP
Stone (13 HD): Climb +11 [+8Str –3Hide], Hide +6* (+14 rocky terrain) [+2Dex –3Hide –4size], Jump +11 [+8Str –3Hide], Spot +12[+1Wis]
34 Skill Points: Climb 6 SP, Hide 11 SP, Jump 6 SP, Spot 11 SP

OK, I agree on giving them Hide, Ride and Spot but Listen seems a low-priority skill comparable to, say, Handle Animal or Survival. How about we give them similar Hide and Spot skill level as the Stone Giant and divide out the remainders between Handle Animal, Listen, Ride or Survival? We'll want Ride to be at least +9 so it can auto-succeed on DC 10 "fight with warhorse" checks…

…Hmm, I tried some numbers and we just don't have the SPs for all of those skills at a reasonable number of ranks so we'll have to trim some of them down to low numbers.

Maybe something like:

Desert (13 HD): Hide +2* (+6 in desert, +16 with camouflage) [+1Dex –4size](+4Racial), Handle Animal +3 [+0Cha], Listen +3 [+0Wis], Ride +9 [+1Dex], Spot +10 [+0Wis], Survival +3 [+0Wis]
32 Skill Points: Hide 5 SP, Handle Animal 3 SP, Listen 3 SP, Ride 8 SP, Spot 10 SP, Survival 3 SP

for…

Skills: Hide +2* (+6 in desert, +16 with camouflage), Handle Animal +3, Listen +3, Ride +9, Spot +10, Survival +3

Then feats could be a Power Attack, Cleave, Iron Will, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery. What do you think? Fits their schtick.

Those are fine, except I'd prefer Point Blank Shot over Cleave.

For comparison:

Hill: Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Weapon Focus (greatclub)
Stone: Combat Reflexes, Iron Will, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, Precise Shot

Desert (Cleon Version): Power Attack, Iron Will, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery, Point Blank Shot

 

[Cleon]

Upon reflection, I think we should add a compact statblock for the Immature Sand-Shifters like we have for the Stony Steeds. Also, I'm thinking the Large version should probably have more Hit Dice than the Medium version - maybe 9 or 10?

Here's how the current version works out:

Immature Sand-Shifter (Adolescent) (Large Giant (Earth); Hit Dice: 7d8+21 (52 hp); Init: +1; Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares); AC: 18 (–1 size, +1 Dex, +8 natural) touch 10, flat-footed 17; Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+14; Attack: Spear +9 melee (2d6+7/×3) or spear +6 ranged (2d6+5/×3) or javelin +6 ranged (1d8+5); Full Attack: Spear +9 melee (2d6+7/×3) or spear +6 ranged (2d6+5/×3) or javelin +6 ranged (1d8+5); Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.; Special Attacks: Junior sand-shifting, spear throwing; Special Qualities: Desert camouflage, low-light vision; Saves: Fort +8, Ref +3, Will +2; Abilities: Str 21, Dex 12, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 13; Skills: TBD; Feats: TBD; CR: 5)

Immature Sand-Shifter (Child) (Medium Giant (Earth); Hit Dice: 7d8+14 (45 hp); Init: +1; Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares); AC: 19 (+1 Dex, +8 natural) touch 11, flat-footed 18; Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+8; Attack: Spear +8 melee (1d8+4/×3) or spear +8 ranged (1d8+3/×3) or javelin +7 ranged (1d6+3); Full Attack: Spear +8 melee (1d8+4/×3) or spear +7 ranged (1d8+3/×3) or javelin +7 ranged (1d6+3); Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.; Special Attacks: Junior sand-shifting, spear throwing; Special Qualities: Desert camouflage, low-light vision; Saves: Fort +8, Ref +3, Will +2; Abilities: Str 17, Dex 12, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 13; Skills: TBD; Feats: TBD; CR: 4)

Yes, I think I'd rather make the Adolescent 9 Hit Dice and maybe tweak the Child's Challenge Rating down to 3 - perhaps cut the Hit Dice to 5 or 6 at the same time?

So something like:

Immature sand-shifters may be Large adolescents (9 Hit Dice, Str 21, Con 17, NA +8, CR 5) or children of Medium size (6 Hit Dice, Str 17, Con 15, NA +7, CR 3). They have Charisma 13 and their other abilities are the same as an adult desert giant plus the following special ability:

Junior Sand-Shifting (Sp): This ability is the equivalent of a 5th-level spell. It works like the ability of an adult sand-shifter but summons 1d8+8 stony steeds.

Immature Sand-Shifter (Adolescent) (Large Giant (Earth); Hit Dice: 9d8+21 (67 hp); Init: +1; Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares); AC: 18 (–1 size, +1 Dex, +8 natural) touch 10, flat-footed 17; Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+15; Attack: Spear +10 melee (2d6+7/×3) or spear +7 ranged (2d6+5/×3) or javelin +7 ranged (1d8+5); Full Attack: Spear +10/+5 melee (2d6+7/×3) or spear +7 ranged (2d6+5/×3) or javelin +7 ranged (1d8+5); Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.; Special Attacks: Junior sand-shifting, spear throwing; Special Qualities: Desert camouflage, low-light vision; Saves: Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +3; Abilities: Str 21, Dex 12, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 13; Skills: TBD; Feats: TBD; CR: 5)

Immature Sand-Shifter (Child) (Medium Giant (Earth); Hit Dice: 6d8+12 (39 hp); Init: +1; Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares); AC: 18 (+1 Dex, +7 natural) touch 11, flat-footed 17; Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+7; Attack: Spear +7 melee (1d8+4/×3) or spear +6 ranged (1d8+3/×3) or javelin +6 ranged (1d6+3); Full Attack: Spear +7 melee (1d8+4/×3) or spear +6 ranged (1d8+3/×3) or javelin +6 ranged (1d6+3); Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.; Special Attacks: Junior sand-shifting, spear throwing; Special Qualities: Desert camouflage, low-light vision; Saves: Fort +8, Ref +3, Will +2; Abilities: Str 17, Dex 12, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 13; Skills: TBD; Feats: TBD; CR: 3)

Yes, I like that better than the current version.

For comparison, an Ettin has similar stats to the Adolescent Sand-Shifter and is CR 6, but it has twice as many attacks due to its superior two-weapon fighting so is justified in being one Challenge Rating higher. The 6 HD Child Sand-Shifter eyeballs as CR 3 and giving it the same CR as a Stony Steed makes the Encounter Group calculations slightly easier.

 

[Cleon]

If you're OK with the above we've only got Organization left and then we can start talking about the Desert Giant Chieftain.

For the former, I'm thinking:

Organization: Solitary, gang (2-5 plus 50% have 1 sand-shifter [25% chance immature]), band (6-9 plus 35% noncombatants plus 1 leader of 2nd or 3rd level and 1 sand-shifter [25% chance immature] plus 50% have 1-4 desert elephants or giant camels*), hunting/raiding/trading party (6-9 plus 1 leader of 2rd-5th level and 1 sand-shifter [10% immature] plus 1-4 desert elephants or giant camels*), or tribe (21-30 plus 35% noncombatants plus 1-3 leaders of 2rd-5th level, 1 chieftain of 6th or 7th level and 1-3 sand-shifters [25% are immature] plus 3-6 desert elephants or giant camels*)
*These mounts have the same stats as an Indian elephant.

For the Chieftain, I'm thinking a 6th level fighter with an enchanted Great Falchion, enchanted armour or some kind and whatever other magical oddments we can afford.

Let's see, he'll be Challenge Rating 13 so what equipment budget does that give us?

An EL 13 Encounter has a Treasure Value of 13,000 gp.
A 13th level NPC has Gear Value or 35,000 gp.
A 6th level NPC has Gear Value or 5,600 gp.

The SRD's Frost Giant Jarl has +2 frost greataxe (18,640), +2 full plate armor (7,300), cloak of Charisma +2 (4,000), ring of minor energy resistance (fire) (12,000), 2 doses of bloodroot poison (200), which adds up to 42,140 gp, which is closest to the Treasure Value of an 8th level blackguard frost giant (CR 17) than its NPC Gear Value: EL 17 Encounter Treasure = 36,000 gp; 17th-level NPC Gear = 100,000 gp; 8th-level NPC Gear = 9,400 gp.

So we're aiming for about 13,000 gp for our Lord of the Desert, give or take.

 

[freyar]

OK, I like the two immature statblocks in general. And your final skills and feats are fine by me.

But I think we have to deal with the CR. When a critter has a summoning ability, we're supposed to work that into the CR, not include the CR of the summoned creatures as part of the EL. How about CR 10? That's about the EL you might expect to get when you meet one of these from your tables. Or if that doesn't work, maybe we should simplify sand shifting.

 

[Cleon]

OK, I like the two immature statblocks in general. And your final skills and feats are fine by me.

Updating the Desert Giant Working Draft.

OK, I like the two immature statblocks in general. And your final skills and feats are fine by me.

But I think we have to deal with the CR. When a critter has a summoning ability, we're supposed to work that into the CR, not include the CR of the summoned creatures as part of the EL. How about CR 10? That's about the EL you might expect to get when you meet one of these from your tables. Or if that doesn't work, maybe we should simplify sand shifting.

I'd be OK using the "average EL" of 10 for the sand-shifter's CR, maybe with the EL version as an optional rule, and just have with/without sand creature CRs in the immature statblock.

i.e.:

Sand-shifter Challenge Ratings includes the petrified ancestors and stony steeds summoned to their aid, a sand-shifter without its sand creatures is EL 7 like a normal CR 7 adult desert giant, while immature sand-shifters are EL 5 (Large) or EL 3 (Medium) without their sand-creatures.

Optional Rule - Sand-Shifter Encounter Groups: If the sand-shifter rolled particularly well or badly on the number of summoned creatures then its Encounter Level might have a –1 or +1 adjustment to reflect the favorable or detrimental circumstances. For example, an adult sand-shifter with six petrified ancestors instead of the average of four might be EL 11 but one with just a single ancestor and five stony steeds could be EL 9, while a child sand-shifter with nine steeds might be EL 8.

I'd include that in the stat blocks, plus we need to set the Feats & Skills of the immature sand-shifters. I've set the HD so we just knock off one feat for the Adolescent and one for the Child. I'm thinking maybe Iron Will followed by Mounted Archery?

Skills we should distribute fairly evenly.

Like so:

Large (9 HD): Hide +0* (+4 in desert, +14 with camouflage) [+1Dex –4size](+4Racial), Handle Animal +3 [+1Cha], Listen +2 [+0Wis], Ride +8 [+1Dex], Spot +8 [+0Wis], Survival +2 [+0Wis]
24 Skill Points: Hide 3 SP, Handle Animal 2 SP, Listen 2 SP, Ride 7 SP, Spot 8 SP, Survival 2 SP
Medium (6 HD): Hide +3* (+7 in desert, +17 with camouflage) [+1Dex](+4Racial), Handle Animal +2 [+1Cha], Listen +1 [+0Wis], Ride +7 [+1Dex], Spot +7 [+0Wis], Survival +1 [+0Wis]
18 Skill Points: Hide 2 SP, Handle Animal 1 SP, Listen 1 SP, Ride 6 SP, Spot 7 SP, Survival 1 SP

That'd make it

Immature sand-shifters may be Large adolescent desert giants (9 Hit Dice, Str 21, Con 17, NA +8, CR 5) or desert giant children of Medium size (6 Hit Dice, Str 17, Con 15, NA +7, CR 3). They have Charisma 13 and their other abilities are the same as an adult desert giant plus the following special ability:

Junior Sand-Shifting (Sp): This ability is the equivalent of a 5th-level spell. It works like the ability of an adult sand-shifter but summons 1d8+8 stony steeds.

Immature Sand-Shifter (Adolescent) (N Large Giant (Earth); Hit Dice: 9d8+21 (67 hp); Init: +1; Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares); AC: 18 (–1 size, +1 Dex, +8 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 17; Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+15; Attack: Spear +10 melee (2d6+7/×3) or spear +7 ranged (2d6+5/×3) or javelin +7 ranged (1d8+5); Full Attack: Spear +10/+5 melee (2d6+7/×3) or spear +7 ranged (2d6+5/×3) or javelin +7 ranged (1d8+5); Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.; Special Attacks: Immature sand-shifting, spear throwing; Special Qualities: Desert camouflage, low-light vision; Saves: Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +3; Abilities: Str 21, Dex 12, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 13; Skills: Hide +0* (+4 in desert, +14 with camouflage), Handle Animal +3, Listen +2, Ride +8, Spot +8, Survival +2; Feats: Mounted Archery, Mounted Combat, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack; CR: 9 [EL 5 without sand-creatures])

Immature Sand-Shifter (Child) (N Medium Giant (Earth); Hit Dice: 6d8+12 (39 hp); Init: +1; Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares); AC: 18 (+1 Dex, +7 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 17; Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+7; Attack: Spear +7 melee (1d8+4/×3) or spear +6 ranged (1d8+3/×3) or javelin +6 ranged (1d6+3); Full Attack: Spear +7 melee (1d8+4/×3) or spear +6 ranged (1d8+3/×3) or javelin +6 ranged (1d6+3); Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.; Special Attacks: Immature sand-shifting, spear throwing; Special Qualities: Desert camouflage, low-light vision; Saves: Fort +8, Ref +3, Will +2; Abilities: Str 17, Dex 12, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 13; Skills: Hide +3* (+7 in desert, +17 with camouflage), Handle Animal +2, Listen +1, Ride +7, Spot +7, Survival +1; Feats: Mounted Combat, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack; CR: 9 [EL 3 without sand-creatures])

Is it worth adding a statblock for the petrified ancestors? We've got ones for everything else!

Petrified Ancestor (N Large Outsider (Earth, Extraplanar); Hit Dice: 13d8+52 (110 hp); Init: +1; Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares); AC: 19 (–1 size, +1 Dex, +9 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 18; Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+20; Attack: Lance* +15 melee (2d6+10/×3); or hurling spear* +15 melee (2d6+7/×3); or slam +15 melee (1d4+7); or hurling spear* +10 ranged (2d6+7/×3); Full Attack: Lance* +15/+10 melee (2d6+10/×3); or hurling spear* +15/+10 melee (2d6+7/×3); or 2 slams +15 melee (1d4+7); or hurling spear* +10 ranged (2d6+7/×3); Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft. (20 ft. with lance or longspear); Special Attacks: Spear throwing; Special Qualities: Desert camouflage, low-light vision; Saves: Fort +12, Ref +5, Will +6; Abilities: Str 25, Dex 12, Con 19, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 10; Skills: Hide +2* (+6 in desert, +16 with camouflage), Handle Animal +3, Listen +3, Ride +9, Spot +10, Survival +3; Feats: Iron Will, Mounted Archery, Mounted Combat, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack; CR: 7)
*A petrified ancestor has the same attack and damage values when it melees or throws a normal spear instead of a hurling spear and melees with a longspear instead of a lance.

 

[freyar]

I still think we should stick to the normal rule that summoned creatures fit into the CR and not have conditional CR/EL for these. Is the reason you want to do this the 1 minute summoning time? If so, we could shorten it.

 

[Cleon]

I still think we should stick to the normal rule that summoned creatures fit into the CR and not have conditional CR/EL for these. Is the reason you want to do this the 1 minute summoning time? If so, we could shorten it.

No, the reason is that according to the Encounter Numbers rules in the DMG, a sand-shifter with the minimum summoning of two petrified ancestors is equivalent to a CR 10 encounter (three CR 7 opponents) while one with the maximum of six ancestral allies is equivalent to CR 13 (seven CR 7 opponents).

That's a significant spread, so I'd like at least an optional rule to cover it and using Encounter Level adjustment is in keeping with the RAW.

That said, it makes sense to fold the whole thing into one EL section rather than having that "Sand-shifter Challenge Ratings includes the petrified ancestors and stony steeds" paragraph before it.

Something like:

Optional Rule - Sand-Shifter Encounter Levels: A petrified ancestor is just as powerful as a desert giant, so four ancestors plus an adult sand-shifter are as physically dangerous as five CR 7 desert giants, which would normally be an EL 12 encounter. A sand-shifter's Challenge Rating of 10 allows for the fact that all the petrified ancestors would crumble into the dunes the instant their sand-shifter falls. However, the DM should consider whether to apply a Encounter Level adjustment to reflect favorable or detrimental conditions. For example, a sand-shifter could have a –1 EL adjustment (EL 9) for 2 petrified ancestors or +1 (EL 11) for 6 ancestors, while one who sends 5-6 ancestors to attack intruders while keeping itself somewhere secure from counter-attack could even be +2 (EL 12). An adult sand-shifter has an EL of 7 without any summoned allies; immature sand-shifters are EL 3 for a child, EL 5 for an adolescent.

Oh, and the Immature Sand-Shifter section needs a bit of tweaking to reflect the above. It also has a sloppy usage of "child" which was subsequently used to identify the smaller size of juvenile sand-shifter:

Immature Sand-Shifters
Immature desert giant sand-shifters appear to be normal juveniles, but are CR 9 due to their sand-shifting abilities. They summon stony steeds for the tribe's warriors to ride into battle and are then kept far away from danger, often with a single adult desert giant relative to protect them. Although juvenile desert giants are meant to be non-combatants they sometimes carry weapons. If armed, they will only have spears and/or javelins – lances and hurling spears are prizes a desert giant earns when attaining adulthood.

Immature sand-shifters may be Large adolescent desert giants (9 Hit Dice, Str 21, Con 17, NA +8) or desert giant children of Medium size (6 Hit Dice, Str 17, Con 15, NA +7). They have Charisma 13 and their other abilities are the same as an adult desert giant plus the following special ability:

 

[Cleon]

Oh, and the Challenge Rating should be "7 (sand-shifter 10, immature sand-shifter 9)".

Updating the Desert Giant Working Draft.

 

[Cleon]

Also, why on earth did I call it "junior sand-shifting" rather than "immature sand-shifting"?

Better change it!

Updating the Desert Giant Working Draft.

Updating the most recent Immature Sand-Shifter Statblocks.

 

[Cleon]

Dang it, I just realized I left off the alignment from all the compact statblocks!

The immature sandshifters, stony steed and petrified ancestors should all start "(N" since they're Neutral.

 

[Cleon]

So are we finished with the basic Desert Giant and Sand-Shifter's stats?

I'm game to start on the background/flavour or stat up the Chieftain.

 

[Cleon]

So are we finished with the basic Desert Giant and Sand-Shifter's stats?

I'm game to start on the background/flavour or stat up the Chieftain.

Oh, and the Desert Giants As Characters and In Zakhara sections need completing as well.

 

[freyar]

As long as the Sand-Shifter EL rule is optional, I'm fine with it.

Why don't we deal with the fluffy stuff first, then do the chieftain?

 

[Cleon]

As long as the Sand-Shifter EL rule is optional, I'm fine with it.

Why don't we deal with the fluffy stuff first, then do the chieftain?

Works for me.

Let's see…

A giant figure swathed in lightweight clothing the color of sand and rock, they could be human if it were not for the size, for they are twice the height. The being's eyes are a startlingly bright blue. What skin can be seen is wrinkled and leathery brown, as if burned by decades of desert sun.

Desert giants are a nomadic race with a fearsome reputation as mercenaries and raiders, although most sustain themselves by herding livestock. The desert giant lifestyle is very similar to that of human desert nomads (since they face similar challenges from the desert). They prefer cattle for their meat and milk, but cows and bulls are hard to keep alive while wandering the desert so they will also have camels or sheep. Peaceful encounters often lead to trading for goods the giants cannot obtain from the desert, they prize cloth, salt, spices, and wood.

Desert giant culture does not recognize settled people as having any right to grazing or water, and a tribe will graze their herds of a settlement's grassland or even crops with no apologies or compensation. Trying to force the giants to leave can be hazardous, so they are usually persuaded to move on by offers of mercenary work or "gifts" that are basically bribes.

These giants are skilled riders but have difficulty finding mounts large enough to carry them, so sometimes resort to bizarre steeds such rocs, monstrous spiders, animated objects, or even undead. Some groups have no steeds, so must rely upon the power of a sand-shifter (see below) to ride into battle.

Sand-shifters are desert giants born with the ability to summon the spirits of the tribe's ancestors and their steeds and grant them bodies formed from the sand of their home. A child sand-shifter can only call up animal spirits to serve as mounts, known as stony steeds, it takes an adult sand-shifter to summon the desert giant's petrified ancestors.

When a desert giant becomes decrepit with age their eyes turn from bright blue to brown and their flesh gradually grows denser and earthier in a process of slow fossilization that continues until the giant dies of old age. [The deceased giant's relatives then bury the petrified corpse in the sands of their ancestral homeland. ?]

Adults are about 12 feet tall and normally weigh about 1,400 pounds. Desert giants can live to be 400 years old. A desert giant who's ancient enough to suffer from fossilization may weigh up to 3,500 pounds.

Desert giants speak Giant. Those with Intelligence scores of 10 or higher also speak Common.

Combat
Unlike normal giants, desert giants do not hurl rocks but are experts in throwing spears or javelins, including a special type of spear they have developed, the hurling spear (see below). Each hurling spear is a lovingly-crafted heirloom a desert giant will go to considerable length to recover and repair after throwing it at an enemy. The best hurling spears are masterwork weapons or even enchanted.

Desert giants are skilled in desert guerilla tactics and favor ambushes prepared with their desert camouflage ability. If they have mounts they can make devastating charges. The best-coordinated bands may have their sand-shifters summon sandy-steeds beneath their camouflaged ambushers, so the desert giant warriors appear to rise out of the ground already seated upon their mounts!

In Zakhara
The desert giants of Zakhara are a fading race, the curse of fossilization has slowly decreased them from a once-great civilization to a handful of small clans. As their situation becomes more desperate they have increasingly turned to banditry and mercenary work, and many young desert giants have gone to the cities to find work as warriors to sustain their families.

 

[Cleon]

I've updated the Desert Giant Working Draft.

We're missing a few scraps from the Desert Giants As Characters.

Namely Bonus Languages, Favored Class, Cleric Domains and a bit of fluff.

For the Bonus Languages, I'm thinking we can combine the standard Giant Languages (Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc) plus the Jann's Elemental Languages (Aquan, Auran, Ignan, or Terran).

I'll remove Draconic, since there are no Dragons in Al-Qadim, and pick Earth and Fire as the two elements they learned from their Jann neighbours, since those seem most appropriate - they're not going to be meeting many Water Elementals in the desert!

Desert Giants As Characters
Desert giants with character classes generally pursue martial classes, particularly their favored class of [fighter]. Most started out as young desert giants seeking mercenary work to feed their tribe. The majority of spellcasters are clerics or druids, arcane spellcasting desert giants are rare and are usually bards or sorcerers, a desert giant wizard is extremely unusual. A standard desert giant cleric has access to two of the following domains: Earth, Sun, Travel, War (most choose Travel or War, some choose both).

● Automatic Languages: Giant. Bonus Languages: Common, Elven, Goblin, Ignan, Orc, Terran.
● Favored Class: fighter.

Maybe we could just cut out the Cleric Domains? Neither the Hill Giant or Frost Giant bothers with them.

Desert giants with character classes generally pursue martial classes, particularly their favored class of fighter. Most started out as young desert giants seeking mercenary work to feed their tribe. The majority of spellcasters are clerics or druids, arcane spellcasting desert giants are rare and are usually bards or sorcerers, a desert giant wizard is extremely unusual.

Nah, I kind of like the Domains.

That said, I'm thinking maybe we should make Common an Automatic language?

Desert giants speak Common and Giant. Those with Intelligence scores of 12 or higher will also speak additional languages.

● Automatic Languages: Common and Giant. Bonus Languages: Elven, Goblin, Ignan, Orc, Terran.

 

[freyar]

Flavor text looks pretty good, and I'm ok keeping the red text. We should separate out "they prize cloth, salt, spices, and wood." and "it takes an adult sand-shifter to summon the desert giant's petrified ancestors." into separate sentences.

I like the revised languages and fighter as favored class. I could go either way about listing cleric domains, but I do like the ones you've listed. So we might as well keep them. Just split "a desert giant wizard is extremely unusual" into a separate sentence, and it's good to go.