Cleon
Legend
The Batrachian Patriarchy insists that Frogmen is the only suitable nomenclature.
I suspect the Space version will prove quite different.
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Converting Dark*Matter Creatures
- Thread starter Rappy
- Start date
The Batrachian Patriarchy insists that Frogmen is the only suitable nomenclature.
I suspect the Space version will prove quite different.
Rappy
First Post
The Dark*Matter ekimmu is indeed rather different, being a psychic space parasite that mutates its host into a vampiric form (lending credence to it most likely being a template; on the other hand, while the Chupacabras is an ekimmu parasite-infected coyote, it has its own d20 Modern stats, so...we'll cross that bridge when we get to it). For now, however, here's the frogmen.
Frogman
[sblock]STR 8
DEX 10
CON 9
INT 9
WILL 11
PER 7
Durability: 9/9/5/5
Speed: Sprint 18, run 12, walk 4, swim 4
Reaction Score: Ordinary/2
Attacks
Unarmed10/5/2
Defenses
+1 resistance modifier vs. melee and ranged attacks
+2 resistance modifier vs. WIL encounter skills
Armor (Ordinary)
Skills
Athletics [8]-jump [10]; Unarmed Combat [8]; Stealth [10]-hide [12]; Movement [9]-swim[12]; Knowledge [9]; Awareness [11]-perception [12]
The frogmen are an amphibious race with some startling similarities to the reptilian kinori. Though obviously not of the same species, the two may share a common ancestor, which could indicate that the frogmen are very distantly related to humans.
Description
A frogman stands about 115 centimeters tall and weighs approximately 60 kilograms. It is covered with leathery, hairless, gray-green skin, and its chest is oddly shaped (occasionally described as "lopsided"). The creature's head is covered in wrinkled ridges, with a wide, lipless mouth and bulging eyes. These features, combined with the novelty of SCUBA at the time these creatures were discovered, made its name inevitable.
Encounter
Although frogmen try to avoid humans, their limited observations of human behavior make encounters more likely than they would prefer. Most run-ins with frogmen happen because the creatures did not understand basic concepts: an empty stretch of road in the middle of the night can suddenly see traffic; farm equipment that has been sitting in the same place every night for months isn't necessarily abandoned.
Frogmen who do encounter humans continue about their business, keeping a watchful eye on the strangers, until they can reach water and disappear into its depths. Through past encounters they have learned that running only makes them tired and more easily intercepted. Furthermore, they've observed that humans seem interested but apprehensive, and that means that humans are more afraid of them than vice versa.
If a frogman is fired upon, it generally ignores the attacks; it doesn't know what firearms are. If it is actually struck, it panics and runs to the nearest body of water. Even then, the creature may not connect the searing pain with the oddly shaped stick in the hands of the human. Indeed, some frogmen nests contain rusted old firearms, still loaded with now-useless bullets.
On the other hand, attacking a frogman in melee combat radically arouses its ire. It lashes out, trying to rake its short but sharp claws across the opponent's face. The goal is not to kill the opponent but escape, so it flees as soon as it is no longer threatened. When the creatures are encountered in numbers, these tactic remains the same; often, the frogman who is slow to break off combat finds itself alone against the enemy.
Habitat/Society
The frogmen live, reproduce, and die much as other creatures do. They primarily eat fish and small mammals. Frogman dwell primarily in rivers, lakes, and swamps. They prefer fresh water to salt, constructing elaborate multichambered nests of mud, sticks, and anything else they can lay their hands on. These nests include both wet and dry chambers; the frogmen live and sleep in the former, and store goods and examine stolen technology in the latter.
Frogmen breathe water more easily than they do air. When our of the water in full daylight, a frogman must check for fatigue every 10 minutes, as though it were performing heavy labor. If it attempts to recover lost fatigue out of water, it suffers a +1 step penalty to its Resolve-physical resolve check. Note that only exceptional frogmen possess this skill - in most cases this is an untrained check against half the Will score, with a further +1 step penalty.
Frogmen occasionally raid onto dry land for food or materials to improve their primitive underwater dwellings. They do so at night, both because they prefer to avoid contact with humans and because the heat of the day quickly dries out their skin. During violent rainstorms they may venture forth in daylight hours, but never very far from their rivers and lakes. In the summer months they stay almost continuously submerged, and in the winter, they hibernate in their sub-aquatic nests.
Frogmen are aware of the existence of humans and kinori, but avoid both. Being fairly primitive lifeforms, they are at the mercy of concerted depredations by more advanced species. Humans, for the most part, are blissfully unaware that they share their waterways with carnivorous humanoid amphibians. On the other hand, the kinori are well aware of the frogmen, but do not consider them any kind of threat, thinking of them, if at all, only as alternative food sources. The frogmen are understandably concerned about this and occasionally stage small raids on kinori outposts. Of course, they completely fail to connect these to subsequent kinori raids on frogmen nests, which they see as justification of their fear.
Equally deadly to the frogmen is their occasional capture of kinori technology, which they carefully bear back to their nests to study. Sadly, their lack of any technological expertise means that the frogmen frequently injure or kill themselves trying to unravel the mysteries of buttons, levers, and dials. Though they are gaining knowledge, the learning curve is steep, and more frogmen are likely to die before they work out how to operate the strange devices they recover.
But when that day comes, both kinori and humans may be in trouble, because each female frogman lays hundreds of eggs during the mating season. There are considerably more frogmen hidden away in the waters of North America than any have guessed.[/sblock]
On the basics, we most likely have a Monstrous Humanoid here, although I guess they could be considered a very strange humanoid as well. Most likely 1 hit die as they aren't exceptionally powerful or anything.
Armor seems to be on the average side, so perhaps +2 or +3 natural armor bonus to Defense?
Their speed would appear to be 20 ft. for both base land speed and swim speed.
Running their ability scores through the Dark*Matter to d20 Modern conversion handbook, we get the following:
Strength 10, Dexterity 14, Constitution 12, Intelligence 11, Wisdom 15, Charisma 8.
While I agree with most of the converted scores, their Wisdom seems way too high for such judgementally-challenged creatures. Should we knock it down to 12, or maybe even 10?
Frogman
[sblock]STR 8
DEX 10
CON 9
INT 9
WILL 11
PER 7
Durability: 9/9/5/5
Speed: Sprint 18, run 12, walk 4, swim 4
Reaction Score: Ordinary/2
Attacks
Unarmed10/5/2
Defenses
+1 resistance modifier vs. melee and ranged attacks
+2 resistance modifier vs. WIL encounter skills
Armor (Ordinary)
Skills
Athletics [8]-jump [10]; Unarmed Combat [8]; Stealth [10]-hide [12]; Movement [9]-swim[12]; Knowledge [9]; Awareness [11]-perception [12]
The frogmen are an amphibious race with some startling similarities to the reptilian kinori. Though obviously not of the same species, the two may share a common ancestor, which could indicate that the frogmen are very distantly related to humans.
Description
A frogman stands about 115 centimeters tall and weighs approximately 60 kilograms. It is covered with leathery, hairless, gray-green skin, and its chest is oddly shaped (occasionally described as "lopsided"). The creature's head is covered in wrinkled ridges, with a wide, lipless mouth and bulging eyes. These features, combined with the novelty of SCUBA at the time these creatures were discovered, made its name inevitable.
Encounter
Although frogmen try to avoid humans, their limited observations of human behavior make encounters more likely than they would prefer. Most run-ins with frogmen happen because the creatures did not understand basic concepts: an empty stretch of road in the middle of the night can suddenly see traffic; farm equipment that has been sitting in the same place every night for months isn't necessarily abandoned.
Frogmen who do encounter humans continue about their business, keeping a watchful eye on the strangers, until they can reach water and disappear into its depths. Through past encounters they have learned that running only makes them tired and more easily intercepted. Furthermore, they've observed that humans seem interested but apprehensive, and that means that humans are more afraid of them than vice versa.
If a frogman is fired upon, it generally ignores the attacks; it doesn't know what firearms are. If it is actually struck, it panics and runs to the nearest body of water. Even then, the creature may not connect the searing pain with the oddly shaped stick in the hands of the human. Indeed, some frogmen nests contain rusted old firearms, still loaded with now-useless bullets.
On the other hand, attacking a frogman in melee combat radically arouses its ire. It lashes out, trying to rake its short but sharp claws across the opponent's face. The goal is not to kill the opponent but escape, so it flees as soon as it is no longer threatened. When the creatures are encountered in numbers, these tactic remains the same; often, the frogman who is slow to break off combat finds itself alone against the enemy.
Habitat/Society
The frogmen live, reproduce, and die much as other creatures do. They primarily eat fish and small mammals. Frogman dwell primarily in rivers, lakes, and swamps. They prefer fresh water to salt, constructing elaborate multichambered nests of mud, sticks, and anything else they can lay their hands on. These nests include both wet and dry chambers; the frogmen live and sleep in the former, and store goods and examine stolen technology in the latter.
Frogmen breathe water more easily than they do air. When our of the water in full daylight, a frogman must check for fatigue every 10 minutes, as though it were performing heavy labor. If it attempts to recover lost fatigue out of water, it suffers a +1 step penalty to its Resolve-physical resolve check. Note that only exceptional frogmen possess this skill - in most cases this is an untrained check against half the Will score, with a further +1 step penalty.
Frogmen occasionally raid onto dry land for food or materials to improve their primitive underwater dwellings. They do so at night, both because they prefer to avoid contact with humans and because the heat of the day quickly dries out their skin. During violent rainstorms they may venture forth in daylight hours, but never very far from their rivers and lakes. In the summer months they stay almost continuously submerged, and in the winter, they hibernate in their sub-aquatic nests.
Frogmen are aware of the existence of humans and kinori, but avoid both. Being fairly primitive lifeforms, they are at the mercy of concerted depredations by more advanced species. Humans, for the most part, are blissfully unaware that they share their waterways with carnivorous humanoid amphibians. On the other hand, the kinori are well aware of the frogmen, but do not consider them any kind of threat, thinking of them, if at all, only as alternative food sources. The frogmen are understandably concerned about this and occasionally stage small raids on kinori outposts. Of course, they completely fail to connect these to subsequent kinori raids on frogmen nests, which they see as justification of their fear.
Equally deadly to the frogmen is their occasional capture of kinori technology, which they carefully bear back to their nests to study. Sadly, their lack of any technological expertise means that the frogmen frequently injure or kill themselves trying to unravel the mysteries of buttons, levers, and dials. Though they are gaining knowledge, the learning curve is steep, and more frogmen are likely to die before they work out how to operate the strange devices they recover.
But when that day comes, both kinori and humans may be in trouble, because each female frogman lays hundreds of eggs during the mating season. There are considerably more frogmen hidden away in the waters of North America than any have guessed.[/sblock]
On the basics, we most likely have a Monstrous Humanoid here, although I guess they could be considered a very strange humanoid as well. Most likely 1 hit die as they aren't exceptionally powerful or anything.
Armor seems to be on the average side, so perhaps +2 or +3 natural armor bonus to Defense?
Their speed would appear to be 20 ft. for both base land speed and swim speed.
Running their ability scores through the Dark*Matter to d20 Modern conversion handbook, we get the following:
Strength 10, Dexterity 14, Constitution 12, Intelligence 11, Wisdom 15, Charisma 8.
While I agree with most of the converted scores, their Wisdom seems way too high for such judgementally-challenged creatures. Should we knock it down to 12, or maybe even 10?
Last edited:
Cleon
Legend
They certainly seem to be Medium Humanoids or Monstrous Humanoids. Probably with the Reptilian subtype.
I think I'd rather cut the intelligence by 2 and keep the high Wisdom, to make them "dumb but alert". They seem cunning and are able to avoid discovery by humans.
The description does suggest they have natural armour. A +3 NA would be enough for me.
freyar
Extradimensional Explorer
Humanoid is actually "traditional" for froggy races (bullywugs, sivs, and Paizo's boggard in 3.5 and Pathfinder are all humanoids). Reptilian could work as a subtype, or they could get their own.
I'd also prefer to cut Int rather than Wis.
+2 or +3 natural.
Aquatic subtype sounds likely. Amphibious seems appropriate for frog-people, but these sound more like they'd have water dependent a la the sahaugin based on the original text.
I'd also prefer to cut Int rather than Wis.
+2 or +3 natural.
Aquatic subtype sounds likely. Amphibious seems appropriate for frog-people, but these sound more like they'd have water dependent a la the sahaugin based on the original text.
Cleon
Legend
Upon reflection, let's give them their own subtype. If they're aliens then they won't be related to "normal" Reptilian races like kobolds.
I agree with the proposed sahuagin-based amphibiousness.
Rappy
First Post
Frogman
CR: 1/2
Medium-size Humanoid (Aquatic, Frogman)
Hit Die: 1d8+1
Hit Points: 5
Massive Damage Threshold: 12
Initiative: +2
Speed: 20 ft., swim 20 ft.
Defense: 15, touch 12, flat-footed 13 (+2 dex, +3 natural)
Base Attack Bonus: +0
Grapple: +0
Attack: +0 melee (1d4, claw) or +0 melee (1d6, club)
Full attack: +0 melee (1d4, 2 claws) or +0 melee (1d6, club)
Fighting Space: 5 ft. by 5 ft.
Reach: 5 ft.
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, water dependent
Allegiances: Any (usually Family)
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +2
Action Points: 0
Reputation: +0
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 9, Wis 15, Cha 8
Skills: Hide +6*, Knowledge (Arcane Lore) +1, Jump +4*, Listen +3, Move Silently +6*, Speak Frogman, Spot +7, Swim +8*
Feats: Great Fortitude, Simple Weapons ProficiencyB.
Advancement: By character class
Possessions: Crude clothing, twisted metal bar (stats as per club), various looted baubles and trinkets.
*Frogmen have no ranks in this skill, but have a natural bonus.
Frogmen are amphibious humanoids from the temperate swamps, lakes, and rivers of North America. In spite of their name, which was inspired by an old phrase for SCUBA divers, there are indeed female and male frogmen. A female of the species can lay up to 100 eggs in a submerged weaving of sticks, bits of debris, and various rusting metal objects built in calm, fresh water. Such colony-dens, often mistaken by humans for beaver dams, have dry dens for investigation of foreign objects gathered by frogmen raiding parties and submerged chambers for day-to-day living and hibernation during the winter.
Kinori savor the taste of these amphibians; as such, the species are at odds with each other, often engaging in mutual raids of the others homes and bases of operation. Such combat (or any combat, for that matter) will usually result in the frogmen attacking for a few rounds before retreating into the nearest body of water. While frogmen prefer to utilize their claws in melee combat, they will wield crude implements at hand as well, often without any true training or experience; they do not, however, understand firearms as of yet, and do not quite understand the connection between the searing pain that makes them run and the strange metal tube an angry human is waving around.
Species Traits
Water Dependent (Ex): Frogmen can survive out of the water for 1 hour per 2 points of Constitution (after that, refer to the drowning rules); in direct sunlight, this time is halved to 1 hour per 4 points of Constitution.
Skills: Frogmen have a +4 bonus to Hide, Move Silently, Jump, and Spot checks. In addition, they have a a +8 bonus to Swim checks, and can make Swim checks even when threatened or distracted.
Frogmen as Player Characters
Frogmen heroes tend to take levels in Tough Hero. Those that manage to live long enough to take an advanced class will almost always favor staying in their base class or multiclassing into Strong or Fast Hero, but frogmen are decently suited for the Thrasher advanced class. A frogman hero has the following traits:
Frogmen In Dungeons and Dragons
Environment: Temperate marshes
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: True Neutral
Frogmen are likely to gather with beings they feel to be "kindred", such as gripplis or lizardfolk. A frogman's favored class is Ranger.
Frogman is © 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Originally found in Dark*Matter: Xenoforms
CR: 1/2
Medium-size Humanoid (Aquatic, Frogman)
Hit Die: 1d8+1
Hit Points: 5
Massive Damage Threshold: 12
Initiative: +2
Speed: 20 ft., swim 20 ft.
Defense: 15, touch 12, flat-footed 13 (+2 dex, +3 natural)
Base Attack Bonus: +0
Grapple: +0
Attack: +0 melee (1d4, claw) or +0 melee (1d6, club)
Full attack: +0 melee (1d4, 2 claws) or +0 melee (1d6, club)
Fighting Space: 5 ft. by 5 ft.
Reach: 5 ft.
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, water dependent
Allegiances: Any (usually Family)
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +2
Action Points: 0
Reputation: +0
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 9, Wis 15, Cha 8
Skills: Hide +6*, Knowledge (Arcane Lore) +1, Jump +4*, Listen +3, Move Silently +6*, Speak Frogman, Spot +7, Swim +8*
Feats: Great Fortitude, Simple Weapons ProficiencyB.
Advancement: By character class
Possessions: Crude clothing, twisted metal bar (stats as per club), various looted baubles and trinkets.
*Frogmen have no ranks in this skill, but have a natural bonus.
Frogmen are amphibious humanoids from the temperate swamps, lakes, and rivers of North America. In spite of their name, which was inspired by an old phrase for SCUBA divers, there are indeed female and male frogmen. A female of the species can lay up to 100 eggs in a submerged weaving of sticks, bits of debris, and various rusting metal objects built in calm, fresh water. Such colony-dens, often mistaken by humans for beaver dams, have dry dens for investigation of foreign objects gathered by frogmen raiding parties and submerged chambers for day-to-day living and hibernation during the winter.
Kinori savor the taste of these amphibians; as such, the species are at odds with each other, often engaging in mutual raids of the others homes and bases of operation. Such combat (or any combat, for that matter) will usually result in the frogmen attacking for a few rounds before retreating into the nearest body of water. While frogmen prefer to utilize their claws in melee combat, they will wield crude implements at hand as well, often without any true training or experience; they do not, however, understand firearms as of yet, and do not quite understand the connection between the searing pain that makes them run and the strange metal tube an angry human is waving around.
Species Traits
Water Dependent (Ex): Frogmen can survive out of the water for 1 hour per 2 points of Constitution (after that, refer to the drowning rules); in direct sunlight, this time is halved to 1 hour per 4 points of Constitution.
Skills: Frogmen have a +4 bonus to Hide, Move Silently, Jump, and Spot checks. In addition, they have a a +8 bonus to Swim checks, and can make Swim checks even when threatened or distracted.
Frogmen as Player Characters
Frogmen heroes tend to take levels in Tough Hero. Those that manage to live long enough to take an advanced class will almost always favor staying in their base class or multiclassing into Strong or Fast Hero, but frogmen are decently suited for the Thrasher advanced class. A frogman hero has the following traits:
- Size: Medium-size. Frogmen have no bonuses or penalties based on size.
- Ability Modifiers: +4 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, -2 Charisma.
- Extra Starting Hit Dice: A frogman gains 1 Hit Die (1d8 hit points). The frogman’s Constitution modifier applies to each Hit Die when determining hit points.
- Base Speed: 20 feet, swim 20 feet.
- Low-Light Vision: Frogmen can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. They retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
- Water Dependent: See Species Traits above.
- Skill Bonus: See Species Traits above.
- Free Language Skills: Speak Frogman (or local language).
- Other Languages: Aquan, Draconic, Kinori.
- Level Adjustment: +1
Frogmen In Dungeons and Dragons
Environment: Temperate marshes
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: True Neutral
Frogmen are likely to gather with beings they feel to be "kindred", such as gripplis or lizardfolk. A frogman's favored class is Ranger.
Frogman is © 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Originally found in Dark*Matter: Xenoforms
Last edited:
Cleon
Legend
The claw damage looks too high to me. I'd go for 1d4.
Skill-wise, they've managed to avoid discovery by humankind which suggests an impressive racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently. Maybe +4 racial? I'd also give them a racial bonus to Spot, since the original has a decent Perception skill.
As for the Knowledge, most D&D monsters aren't given Survival skill, relying on their Wisdom default - and Frogmen have a good Wisdom bonus.
I'd but it in some kind of science skill, since they are studying alien artifacts. Maybe Knowledge (arcane) or whatever the d20 Modern equivalent of Use Magic Device is?
Cleon
Legend
Good idea on the racial bonus to Jump.
I'll back Great Fortitude too.
Weapon Focus (claws) doesn't seem to fit, since the original had a lousy Unarmed Combat skill.
Rappy
First Post
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