Converting Epic Level Creatures

[Cleon]

Death ward is very useful if he's running into energy drain situations. It doesn't really bother me either way, but I think I'd rather have Andromidus provide transportation rather than protection if he's using his spells on behalf of PCs. It just seems more appropriate for him.

Well air walk is a one creature deal, so it's not much use for parties of PCs. Generally speaking, wind walk is more applicable.

Those 4 domains will work!

Updating the Andromidus Working Draft.

 

[freyar]

Oh, you're right, I was getting air walk confused with wind walk. Hmmmm. OK, I could see dropping air walk in that case.

What domain spells do you want to give him?

 

[Cleon]

Oh, you're right, I was getting air walk confused with wind walk. Hmmmm. OK, I could see dropping air walk in that case.

Good! Applying the currently agreed changes to Prometheus's spell selection give us...

Typical Cleric Spells Prepared (6/8+1/8+1/6+1/6+1/5+1, save DC 24 + spell level, or 29 + spell level for Illusion spells.):

0 – create water, detect magic, light, mending, purify food and drink, read magic;
1st – bless, bless water, burning hands*, detect evil, divine favor, entropic shield, protection from evil, remove fear, sanctuary, shield of faith; ONE TOO MANY
2nd – aid, augury, bear's endurance, bull's strength, eagle's splendor, make whole, owl's wisdom, shield other, silence, status; ONE TOO MANY
3rd – clairaudience/clairvoyance*, continual flame, daylight, helping hand, locate object, prayer, stone shape, water walk; ONE TOO MANY
4th – death ward, dimensional anchor, dismissal, divination, freedom of movement, holy smite*, sending, tongues; ONE TOO MANY
5th – commune, dispel evil, fire shield*, mass cure light wounds, plane shift, scrying, true seeing. ONE TOO MANY

That's odd.

We appear to have miscalculated - there's still one too many spells.

Oh wait, it's the CC conversion of Prometheus that wrong. Its spells prepared have one too many spells at each level.

Prometheus Spells Prepared:

Spell Level	0	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	7th
Cleric Levels	6	5+1	5+1	4+1	4+1	3+1	2+1	1+1
Wisdom Bonus	—	4	4	3	3	3	3	2
Total	6	9+1	9+1	7+1	7+1	6+1	5+1	3+1

I think what happened is the domain bonus spell accidentally got folded in with the regular spells in the "Typical Cleric Spells Prepared" numbers.

The CC entry has "6/10/10/8/8/7/6/4" when it should have "6/9+1/9+1/7+1/7+1/5+1/3+1", and the actual number of spells is "6/10+1/10+1/8+1/8+1/7+1/6+1/4+1":

Typical Cleric Spells Prepared (6/10/10/8/8/7/6/4; save DC 24 + spell level):
0 (6) – create water, detect magic, light, mending, purify food and drink, read magic; SIX SPELLS = CORRECT
1st (9+1) – bless (x2), bless water, burning hands*, detect evil, divine favor, entropic shield, protection from evil, remove fear, sanctuary, shield of faith; ELEVEN SPELLS = ONE TOO MANY
2nd (9+1) – aid, augury, bear's endurance, bull's strength, eagle's splendor, make whole, owl's wisdom, produce flame*, shield other, silence, status; ELEVEN SPELLS = ONE TOO MANY
3rd (7+1) – clairaudience/clairvoyance*, continual flame, daylight, helping hand, locate object, prayer, searing light, stone shape, water walk; NINE SPELLS = ONE TOO MANY
4th (7+1) – air walk, death ward, dimensional anchor, dismissal, divination, freedom of movement, holy smite*, sending, tongues; NINE SPELLS = ONE TOO MANY
5th (6+1) – commune, dispel evil, fire shield*, flame strike, mass cure light wounds, plane shift, scrying, true seeing; EIGHT SPELLS = ONE TOO MANY
6th (5+1) – banishment, blade barrier*, greater dispel magic, heal, heroes' feast, mass cure moderate wounds, wind walk; SEVEN SPELLS = ONE TOO MANY
7th (3+1) – fire storm*, holy word, mass cure critical wounds, regenerate, resurrection. FIVE SPELLS = ONE TOO MANY

Oh, you're right, I was getting air walk confused with wind walk. Hmmmm. OK, I could see dropping air walk in that case.

What domain spells do you want to give him?

We've still got most of the ones on Prometheus's cleric list, so we'd better check which ones are for domains Andromidus doesn't have...

Okay now, we need to cut the burning hands and fire shield as domain spells, since Andromidus does not have the Fire Domain.

We can cut the aid and locate object spells you suggested earlier.

We can make protection from evil and true seeing domain spells.

We still need to remove a 2nd and 4th level spell - I suggest status and sending.

That makes the following:

Typical Cleric Spells Prepared (6/8+1/8+1/6+1/6+1/5+1, save DC 24 + spell level, or 29 + spell level for Illusion spells.):

0 [6] – create water, detect magic, light, mending, purify food and drink, read magic;
1st [8+1] – bless, bless water, detect evil, divine favor, entropic shield, protection from evil*, remove fear, sanctuary, shield of faith;
2nd [8+1] – DOMAIN*, augury, bear's endurance, bull's strength, eagle's splendor, make whole, owl's wisdom, shield other, silence;
3rd [6+1] – clairaudience/clairvoyance*, continual flame, daylight, helping hand, prayer, stone shape, water walk;
4th [6+1] – death ward, dimensional anchor, dismissal, divination, freedom of movement, holy smite*, tongues;
5th [5+1] – commune, dispel evil, mass cure light wounds, plane shift, scrying, true seeing*.

All that leaves is choosing the 2nd level domain spell.

The choices are aid, detect thoughts, enthrall, wood shape.

I'd prefer either detect thoughts or wood shape since those aren't on the standard Cleric spell lists.

 

[freyar]

OK, I will agree to all of that, and I would make detect thoughts the 2nd level domain spell.

 

[Cleon]

OK, I will agree to all of that, and I would make detect thoughts the 2nd level domain spell.

Updating the Andromidus Working Draft.

I think that's it for the special abilities.We've just got the AC, feats, skills, SR and CR to settle on.

 

[freyar]

Hmmm, let's look at AC. His original AC is -2. How does that compare to Prometheus, and what does our conversion of Prometheus have?

 

[Cleon]

Hmmm, let's look at AC. His original AC is -2. How does that compare to Prometheus, and what does our conversion of Prometheus have?

I'm not near to my sourcebooks at the moment. I should be able to check later today and post Forethought's AC.

 

[Cleon]

I'm not near to my sourcebooks at the moment. I should be able to check later today and post Forethought's AC.

Just remembered we should already have the answers on this forum somewhere.

This post by Boz lists the Deities & Demigods AD&D stats for the Greater Titans, which indicate that Prometheus's AC is -2, just like Andromidus.

The conversion of Prometheus we have archived on this forum has:

Armor Class: 55 (-8 size, +7 Dex, +32 natural, +14 insight), touch 23, flat-footed 48

I'll probably double-check my sources tomorrow, but that sounds about right.

 

[freyar]

Hmmmm. I think we probably want to reduce the AC a bit from that given that Prometheus has more HD and probably a greater CR (maybe). Just adjusting for size and Dex may take care of that: NS goes to +27, size adjustment to -4, Dex to +4, so we get a possible AC (leaving insight the same, since it's Wis-based) of
Armor Class: 51 (-4 size, +4 Dex, +27 natural, +14 insight), touch 24, flat-footed 47 .

That might work.

 

[Cleon]

Hmmmm. I think we probably want to reduce the AC a bit from that given that Prometheus has more HD and probably a greater CR (maybe). Just adjusting for size and Dex may take care of that: NS goes to +27, size adjustment to -4, Dex to +4, so we get a possible AC (leaving insight the same, since it's Wis-based) of Armor Class: 51 (-4 size, +4 Dex, +27 natural, +14 insight), touch 24, flat-footed 47 .

That might work.

Well, firstly Andromidus is "is powerful even in comparison to the major and elder beings of his mighty race" according to Dungeon #2, so I'd like him to have an AC that isn't that far off the other Greater Titans in the CC.

Secondly, your proposed NA is lower than the basic Greater Titan's +28.

At the very least he ought to have a NA equal to that; resulting in AC 52, touch 24, flat-footed 48.

I'd be game to increase the NA to +30, but the above is fine too.